a:6:{s:5:"child";a:1:{s:0:"";a:1:{s:3:"rss";a:1:{i:0;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:3:"


";s:7:"attribs";a:1:{s:0:"";a:1:{s:7:"version";s:3:"2.0";}}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:1:{s:0:"";a:1:{s:7:"channel";a:1:{i:0;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:112:"
	
	
	
	







































































































";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:1:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:16:"WordPress Planet";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"http://planet.wordpress.org/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:8:"language";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2:"en";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:47:"WordPress Planet - http://planet.wordpress.org/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"item";a:50:{i:0;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:54:"Peter Wilson: I’m speaking at Web Directions Enqueue";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://peterwilson.cc/?p=6715";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:61:"https://peterwilson.cc/im-speaking-at-web-directions-enqueue/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1744:"<p>I’m thrilled to be part of the line up for <a href="https://webdirections.org/enqueue/">Web Directions Enqueue</a>, co presented by The Code Company, on November 28, 2025. Enqueue is to be one of the first engineering focused WordPress conferences in Australia, and the line up includes some of the best engineering minds in WordPress today, including <a href="https://www.jonoalderson.com/">Jono Alderson</a>, <a href="https://tammielister.com/">Tammie Lister</a>, <a href="https://isabelbrison.com/">Isabel Brison</a>, <a href="https://cameronjonesweb.com.au/">Cameron Jones</a> and too many more to mention.</p>



<p>I’ll be doing a deep dive into the performance improvements WordPress Contributors have added to the Query classes in recent years. </p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>The WordPress Performance team was established in 2021 with the goal of improving the performance of WordPress Core. As a fundamental part of rendering each and every page of a WordPress site, the <code>WP_Query</code> class has received a lot of attention.</p>



<p>In this talk, Peter will discuss how the performance of <code>WP_Query</code> and the WordPress Query component have been improved with increased caching, and how that can be taken full advantage of when building WordPress sites at scale.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>There will also be talks about integrating WordPress with LLMs, accessibility and developer workflows.</p>



<p>Enqueue is taking place in Sydney on November 28, 2025 in the beautiful Dr Chau Chak Wing Building at UTS (the paper bag building). It will also be streamed via <a href="https://conffab.com/">Conffab</a> if you’re unable to make it in person.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sun, 21 Sep 2025 10:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:12:"Peter Wilson";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:1;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"Matt: Books on Grieving";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149866";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:40:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/books-on-grieving/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:844:"<p>When my father passed unexpectedly, I was despondent. One thing I remember was the Amazon lovebomb I got from my high school girlfriend Sunaina Sondhi, five books to help me deal with the pain. Even a decade after we dated, books were her love language; in fact, she had given me my very first book about meditation when we were teenagers. I don&#8217;t recall what all the books were, but the two that really made a difference for me were Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s and David Kessler&#8217;s posthumous book <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Grief-Grieving-Finding-Meaning-Through/dp/1476775559">On Grief and Grieving</a>, and the <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Tibetan-Book-Living-Dying-International-ebook/dp/B000FC147G/">Tibetan Book of Living and Dying</a>. Each allowed me to process and understand the emotions I was going through.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sun, 21 Sep 2025 02:28:10 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:2;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:20:"Matt: MCP Everywhere";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149849";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:37:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/mcp-everywhere/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1917:"<p>MCP stands for <a href="https://modelcontextprotocol.io/">Model Context Protocol</a>. (The joke is the S in MCP stands for security, but that&#8217;s another post.) They say to think of it like &#8220;like a USB-C port for AI applications&#8221; because it allows interoperability between AI chatbots and other tools. Here&#8217;s some of the MCP stuff happening across the <a href="https://automattic.com/">Automattic</a> solar system:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Core WordPress now has <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/mcp-adapter/">an MCP Adapter</a> that uses a new <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/ai/2025/07/17/abilities-api/">Abilities API</a> to do <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Create,_read,_update_and_delete">CRUD</a> and more operations across WordPress.</li>



<li>Woo&#8217;s core MCP is coming in version 10.3 in early October, though <a href="https://github.com/techspawn/woocommerce-mcp-server">Lawrence Sinclair already spun one up on Github</a>.</li>



<li><a href="https://library.clay.earth/hc/en-us/articles/36405339564315-Clay-MCP-live-Make-integration-improved-Library-and-more">Here&#8217;s how to set up Clay&#8217;s MCP</a> so your AI can ask things like &#8220;Who are my contacts at Google that I haven&#8217;t spoken to in 6 months?&#8221;</li>



<li><a href="https://www.beeper.com/desktop-api">Beeper&#8217;s MCP implementation</a> lets you query your entire message history across iMessage (on MacOS), WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Instagram, and many more with natural language.</li>



<li>Day One has a <a href="https://github.com/Quevin/mcp-dayone/">community MCP implementation from Kevin Davinson</a>.</li>
</ul>



<p>When nerds start connecting things, interesting stuff happens; that&#8217;s been my entire career, so while none of these have made it into a critical daily workflow for me, I&#8217;m curious to see what people come up with.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 20 Sep 2025 01:41:21 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:3;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:100:"Gutenberg Times: Block commenting, fun with Telex, from classic to block theme—Weekend Edition 341";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=41913";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:107:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/block-commenting-fun-with-telex-from-classic-to-block-theme-weekend-edition-341/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:21753:"<p>Hi there,</p>



<p>A month before Beta, is the time I get excited about a major release. Many new features—I see it all coming together via GitHub and Trac. The Source of Truth is in the works, but it will take a few more weeks to be published, as only when Release candidate 2 comes out I can be sure about what actually made it into the release. </p>



<p>Until then, check out <a href="https://telex.automattic.ai/"><strong>Automattic Telex</strong></a> for your personal block-building needs. Below you learn from others who went before you. </p>



<p>Today the 190th <a href="https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/oktoberfest-munich-2025-its-tapped-live-with-english-commentary,Ux8oig2">Oktoberfest 2025 started in Munich</a>. Should you be in town, give serendipity a chance and let me know. We could meet up. </p>



<p>Enjoy the weekend regardless of where you are. </p>



<p>Yours, <img alt="💕" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f495.png" style="height: 1em;" /><br /><em>Birgit</em></p>


<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-group" style="padding-top: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow">
<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>



<nav class="wp-block-table-of-contents"><ol><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/block-commenting-fun-with-telex-from-classic-to-block-theme-weekend-edition-341/#0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/block-commenting-fun-with-telex-from-classic-to-block-theme-weekend-edition-341/#0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a><ol><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/block-commenting-fun-with-telex-from-classic-to-block-theme-weekend-edition-341/#building-blocks-with-telex">Building blocks with Telex</a></li></ol></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/block-commenting-fun-with-telex-from-classic-to-block-theme-weekend-edition-341/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/block-commenting-fun-with-telex-from-classic-to-block-theme-weekend-edition-341/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor.</a></li></ol></nav>
</div></div>
</section>

<div class="wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block" width="100%"></div>


<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>



<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p><img alt="🎙" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f399.png" style="height: 1em;" /> The latest episode is <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-120-wordcamp-us-telex-gutenberg-21-4-and-21-5/">Gutenberg Changelog 120—WordCamp US, Automattic Telex, Gutenberg 21.4 and 21.5, and the need for more blocks</a> with special guest <strong>Sarah Norris. </strong></p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full is-style-no-vertical-margin"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41771" height="207" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-05-at-14.12.23-edited.png?resize=652%2C207&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<p class="has-small-font-size"><em>If you are listening via Spotify, please leave a comment. If you listen via other podcast apps, please leave a review. It&#8217;ll help with the distribution.</em></p>
</div></div>



<p>Block-level commenting is Gutenberg Phase 3 feature and in very active development. Although still experimental, it is worth testing now, as it heads to WordPress 6.9. </p>



<p><strong>Aki Hamano</strong>, core contributor to Gutenberg, has created the <a href="https://github.com/t-hamano/block-commenting-data-generator"><strong>Block Commenting Data generator</strong></a> plugin to help him streamline his testing process for this feature. The plugin is available on GitHub, and it is not for use in a production environment. On activation it creates users, comments, and other data. </p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/releases/tag/v21.7.0-rc.1"><strong>Gutenberg 21.7 Release candidate</strong></a> is now available for testing. It&#8217;ll be released on September 23, 2025. Block Commenting is a big part, as are DataForms improvements and write mode updates. </p>



<p>As a side note: You don&#8217;t have to wait for the next Gutenberg release to test things. You can use the <a href="https://bit.ly/playground-nightly"><strong>Gutenberg Nightly with Playground</strong></a></p>


<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-callout undefined not-color-set" style="border-color: #eeeeee; border-radius: 26px; border-style: solid; border-width: 0; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: left; margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; background-color: #f3efe9;">
<p><strong><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>



<p>Now also available via <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">Email me </a>with your experience</p>
</section>


<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>



<p>Check out <strong>Wes Theron&#8217;</strong>s latest video where he shows you <strong><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lut6UcS5Fg">how to build one-of-a-kind page layouts in WordPress.</a></strong> He dives into crafting a clean, distraction-free landing page, promoting a special event, and even how to give a specific page its own unique header and footer. Custom templates are totally where it&#8217;s at!</p>


<div class="wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block" width="100%">
<figure class="wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div></figure>
</div>


<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> updated his <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/x3p0-progress/"><strong>Progress Bar</strong></a> Block plugin to v 2.0. It now supports Core features like drop <code>shadow</code>, blockGap and layout controls. It&#8217;s a feature-rich block that feels at home in the block editor, using the known interface components in the sidebar.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="Justin Tadlock's Progress Bar block plugin from the WordPress plugin repository. " class="wp-image-41943" height="351" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-20-at-09.55.32.png?resize=652%2C351&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Dennis Buchwald,</strong> founder of the <em>dbw-media</em> agency in Germany, released his first plugin into the WordPress plugin directory, <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/infinite-logo-carousel-block/"><strong>an infinite logo carousel block.</strong></a> You upload all the logos into the media library and into the block editor, and it displays a logo carousel with customizable speed, spacing, and hover-pause. A great way to display client, partner, or sponsor logos scrolling over your website. You can even control the overlay at the two sides. This one is a slight pink. It&#8217;s also on brand for <em>dbw-media.</em> </p>



<p>Welcome to the open-source community of WordPress plugin developers, Dennis Buchwald at <a href="https://dbw-media.de/">dbw-media.de</a> <img alt="🎉" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f389.png" style="height: 1em;" /></p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="infinite logo carousel by Dennis Buckwald" class="wp-image-41952" height="95" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-20-at-11.04.40.png?resize=652%2C95&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="building-blocks-with-telex">Building blocks with Telex</h3>



<p><a href="https://telex.automattic.ai/"><strong>Automattic Telex</strong></a> is like the next big thing in block building, all thanks to natural language! Just tell it what you’re dreaming up, and Telex will whip up the code, package it as a plugin, and you can test it out right away. It’s still experimental, but honestly, there’s no better time to start making your ideas into real WordPress blocks!</p>



<p>Not everyone who&#8217;s tried and shared their journey has hit the jackpot. <strong>Jamie Marsland</strong> totally had a blast, as he shared over on <a href="https://x.com/pootlepress/status/1965372076765970943">X (formerly Twitter)</a>!</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Jeff Paul </strong>also gave it whirl and shared his experience in <a href="https://jeffpaul.com/2025/09/pong-block/"><strong>Pong Block: A Fun New WordPress Plugin (and a Nod to Telex)</strong></a>. He wrote, &#8220;That simplicity is why I’d recommend Telex to anyone curious about experimenting with block plugin creation. It feels like a fast way to explore an idea and get it live.&#8221; His plugin already <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/pong-block/"><strong>landed in the WordPress repository,</strong></a> and you can add some playfulness to your site.</p>


<div class="wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block" width="100%">
<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size"><em><strong>Take a break and play it now. Happy Plonging. </strong></em></p>


</div></div>
</div>


<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>JuanMa Garrido</strong>, developer advocate at Automattic, also took Telex for a spin. You can read about this journey in his post <a href="https://juanma.codes/2025/09/19/playing-with-telex-building-a-mermaid-diagram-block-in-just-a-few-prompts/"><strong>Playing with Telex: Building a Mermaid Diagram Block in Just a Few Prompts.</strong></a> Mermaid Diagrams can be created via Markdown notation and then displayed on the front end. </p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="Block editor view of JuanMa's Mermaid diagram block, built with Telex. " class="wp-image-41948" height="304" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-20-at-10.26.22.png?resize=643%2C304&#038;ssl=1" width="643" /></figure>



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<p><strong><a href="https://x.com/ivanovic_marco">Marco Ivanovic</a></strong>, designer at Automattic, built a plugin called <a href="https://ivanovicmarko.com/2025/09/17/space-dots/">Space Dots</a> with Telex. A fun block to display a bunch of moving dots that will react to your mouse movements. </p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large is-resized"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41977" height="449" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-20-at-12.44.36-edited.png?resize=449%2C449&#038;ssl=1" style="width: 449px; height: auto;" width="449" /></figure>



<p><strong>Nick Hamze</strong> shared his Telex creations on X (formerly known as Twitter), like this <a href="https://x.com/sortaiconick/status/1968135209519550656"><strong>flash card block</strong></a>. He also promised to submit his best 10 creations to the WordPress repository. </p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><a href="https://x.com/sortaiconick/status/1968135209519550656"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41978" height="416" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-20-at-12.54.23.png?resize=652%2C416&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></a></figure>



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<p>Are you ready to try it too? In his post on <em>wp-content.co,</em> <a href="https://wp-content.co/automattic-telex-ai-tool-turns-prompts-to-blocks/"><strong>Automattic Launches Telex: An AI Tool That Turns Prompts into Custom WordPress Blocks,</strong></a> <a href="https://x.com/nithin_sreeraj"><strong>Nithin Sreeraj</strong> </a>shares some more voices around the community and then walks you through what to expect when engaging with the AI interface and what happens when the first version is available in the Playground-based interface. It&#8217;s well described. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>



<p><strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner,</strong> <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2025/session/moving-a-website-from-classic-to-a-block-theme/">first-time speaker</a> at WCUS 2025, was interviewed by <strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong> for the WPTavern podcast. <a href="https://wptavern.com/podcast/185-mary-ann-aschenbrenner-on-switching-clients-from-classic-to-block-themes" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank"><strong>#185 – Mary Ann Aschenbrenner on Switching Clients From Classic to Block Themes</strong></a>. They discussed the differences between classic and block themes, with Mary Ann offering practical advice for switching to modern block-based themes. She shared why to make the switch, potential challenges, and client conversion stories. Perfect for anyone wanting to understand how block themes make site building more accessible.</p>


<div class="wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block" width="100%">
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<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-callout undefined not-color-set" style="border-color: #f9f9e5; border-radius: 22px; border-style: solid; border-width: 0; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: left; margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; background-color: #f9f9e5;">
<p><strong> <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2025&#8221;</a> </strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/">2020</a> | <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/">2021</a></strong> | <strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/">2022</a></strong></strong> | <strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023">2023</a></strong> | <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2024/"><strong>2024</strong></a></p>
</section>


<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor.</h2>



<p><br /><strong>Ryan Welcher </strong>has been on the quest to build the Core Icon block, inspired by Nick Diego&#8217;s Icon Block plugin and has been livestreaming his adventures with all kinds of tribulations. He dedicated two live stream sessions to this task. </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voZwxC6uD3s"><strong>Building the new Icon Block for WordPress core</strong></a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogHfLLsbeYk"><strong>Building the new Icon Block for WordPress core: Part 2</strong></a></li>
</ul>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Brian Coords</strong>, developer advocate with WooCommerce, asked, <a href="https://www.briancoords.com/are-you-down-with-mcp/"><strong>Are you down with MCP?</strong></a> because he initially didn&#8217;t get the hype—why waste AI tokens on simple tasks you could do faster manually? But after building a custom WordPress plugin for his wife&#8217;s bakery to track ingredient costs, he realized MCP&#8217;s power isn&#8217;t just data connection; it&#8217;s combining that with AI&#8217;s natural language interface to replace clunky forms with conversational commands. </p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>This week, <strong>JuanMa Garrido</strong> tackled in his livestream <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip8cISDQaYQ"><strong>REST API Authentication</strong></a>. Together with ChatGPT, he took a deep dive into WordPress REST API authentication methods, starting with the basics of how REST APIs work and setting up WordPress with proper permalinks. Then Garrido walked through WordPress&#8217;s core authentication systems, showing how cookie authentication works in the block editor by examining network requests and cookie headers. He explained WordPress&#8217;s built-in CSRF protection using nonces and demonstrated creating custom REST endpoints with permission callbacks. The tutorial also covers application passwords as an alternative to cookies, comparing them to JSON Web Tokens and discussing security considerations for token storage. Finally, Garrido explored more advanced topics like implementing JWT workflows with proxy servers and OAuth2 authentication for third-party apps.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>



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<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size">For questions to be answered on the <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>



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<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-group" style="padding-top: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<p>Featured Image: Oktoberfest Munich photo by Birgit Pauli-Haack</p>



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<p class="has-text-align-left"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>


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</section>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 19 Sep 2025 23:40:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:4;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:72:"Open Channels FM: Agentic AI: The Next Evolution for WordPress Websites?";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=109354";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:77:"https://openchannels.fm/agentic-ai-the-next-evolution-for-wordpress-websites/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:193:"In 2025, agentic AI revolutionizes WordPress, enabling context-aware automation and seamless integration across tools, enhancing workflows and empowering users without deep technical knowledge.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 19 Sep 2025 08:58:04 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:5;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:79:"Open Channels FM: Best Practices for Asynchronous Communication in Remote Teams";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=109619";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:86:"https://openchannels.fm/best-practices-for-asynchronous-communication-in-remote-teams/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:104:"Asynchronous communication. Over-communicate, use emojis cautiously, and know when to talk face-to-face.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 18 Sep 2025 12:10:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:6;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:21:"Matt: Every 6 Minutes";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149834";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:38:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/every-6-minutes/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1550:"<p>I&#8217;m at a dinner tonight and they have these old magazines on the table, including some old copies of <a href="https://www.wired.com/">WIRED</a>, which, if you can imagine, as a kid in Houston in the 90s, was a portal to the amazing world of the internet and technology. I flipped through, and there is an entire web hosting classifieds section! Hiway Technologies wants you to know that every 6 minutes, someone hosts with Hiway.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149835" height="805" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/IMG_4771-768x1024.jpeg?resize=604%2C805&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>



<p>Every six minutes, so they were doing 240 signups a day. 100,000 sites! Last month <a href="https://wordpress.com/">WordPress.com</a> created a new site about every 3 seconds. Hiway was founded by Scott Adams, same name but not the <a href="https://dilbert.com/">Dilbert</a> guy or the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams_(game_designer)">game designer</a>, who apparently played football in Florida and the company &#8220;<a href="https://www.fau.edu/research/magazine/2018/01/dor-adams-2018-01/">was sold in 1999 for $352 million. Adams was 35.</a>&#8221; </p>



<p>There was also this guy, who has a website, but do you?</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149838" height="805" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/IMG_4767-768x1024.jpeg?resize=604%2C805&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 18 Sep 2025 06:57:40 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:7;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:91:"WPTavern: #185 – Mary Ann Aschenbrenner on Switching Clients From Classic to Block Themes";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=199566";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:105:"https://wptavern.com/podcast/185-mary-ann-aschenbrenner-on-switching-clients-from-classic-to-block-themes";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:45586:"<details>Transcript<div>
<p>[00:00:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>



<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, switching clients from classic to block themes.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>



<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>



<p>So on the podcast today we have Mary Ann Aschenbrenner. Mary Ann has been the president of Waterlink Web, a digital agency specializing in WordPress web design, since 2014. Her experience includes e-commerce and membership websites, websites for local nonprofit organizations, and starter websites for small businesses As a lifelong learner, Mary Ann likes to keep pace with the latest innovations in WordPress. She is a fan of block themes, and particularly the WordPress default themes.</p>



<p>We start by discussing the differences between classic and block themes, with Mary Ann offering practical step-by-step advice for anyone considering a move from a classic theme to a modern block-based theme. She talks about why you might want to make the switch, potential challenges to look out for, and stories from her own experience converting client sites.</p>



<p>We also chat about the evolution of WordPress, the diminishing need for third party page builders, the importance of client education, and the ongoing improvements in the block editor. Plus Mary Ann shares insights from her WordCamp presentation, and her experiences collaborating with the WordPress community.</p>



<p>Whether you&#8217;re a seasoned WordPresser or just starting out and keen to know how block themes are making site building more accessible for everyone, this episode is for you.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>



<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Mary Ann Aschenbrenner.</p>



<p>I am joined on the podcast by Mary Ann Aschenbrenner. Hello.</p>



<p>[00:02:54] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Hello. Nice to be here.</p>



<p>[00:02:56] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Very nice to have you with us. Thank you so much. You are the first interview that I&#8217;m carrying out at WordCamp US in Portland in the year 2025.</p>



<p>The endeavour here is to talk about classic themes and block themes. You are doing a presentation. I don&#8217;t suppose you&#8217;ve done it yet, because we&#8217;re right at the beginning of the main conference.</p>



<p>[00:03:12] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I do it this afternoon at 2:15pm, yes.</p>



<p>[00:03:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. Good luck with that. Let&#8217;s just first of all find out a little bit about you. So if you don&#8217;t mind, would you just give us your biography, your potted biography, if you like. Who you are, what you do.</p>



<p>[00:03:24] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I&#8217;m from Portland, born and raised here. And the reason I got into website design is kind of a fluke and kind of really related to my whole ethos as a citizen of this great city.</p>



<p>Well, Pier Park is a North Portland park and it&#8217;s where my kids learned to swim. It&#8217;s where a lot of kids learned to swim. It was in a fairly low income neighborhood. And in 2005, the City of Portland decided to close the outdoor pool that was open in the summers. Just funding issues. And I worked with some other North Portland people and we gathered 700 signatures, which I don&#8217;t know if you know this, it&#8217;s a lot of work to get 700 signatures. And we took them down to City Hall, and we presented them and we talked about why Pier Pool needed to stay open.</p>



<p>And Sam Adams at the time said, we can find money for these folks. He was on the city council. And lo and behold, they decided to keep Pier Pool open.</p>



<p>Well, about a month later, I&#8217;m at a City Bureau meeting and was told that the reason they decided to close Pier Pool at the time, instead of Buckman Pool was because Buckman had a website. This was 2000 and five. I was like, oh, it can&#8217;t be that hard to get a website. I&#8217;ve collected 700 signatures, websites have to be easier. So Friends of Pier Park has had a website ever since and we, of course, keep our pool open with it. And that&#8217;s the long story short of how I got into it.</p>



<p>[00:04:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s nice. That&#8217;s a real sort of philanthropic community endeavour that got you started on the road to WordPress. I&#8217;m guessing you built that site with WordPress.</p>



<p>[00:05:05] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I got someone else to do it because I knew nothing about building websites. In 2012, I had the opportunity to go back to school, and I actually went to PCC and studied web design. And I&#8217;ve been building websites, I started my own company shortly after that, and I&#8217;ve been doing it ever since with Water Link Web.</p>



<p>[00:05:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, you&#8217;ve been in the weeds for a fairly long time.</p>



<p>[00:05:24] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Yeah, well over a decade. 14 years or something like that.</p>



<p>[00:05:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You&#8217;re obviously keeping up to date with all the different bits and pieces in the WordPress space, because the content of your presentation later today is, well, the title is Moving a Website from Classic to Block themes. Some examples, some live and learns. And so I&#8217;m guessing you&#8217;re going to be instructing people on, if they wish to make the move, how to go from what we call a classic theme.</p>



<p>[00:05:45] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> It will be like the real step by step. This is what you do this first, you do this second, this is what it&#8217;s going to look like, these are the problems you may come into, and this is how to fix them. And voila, it&#8217;s going to be great.</p>



<p>[00:05:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And so from your perspective, what&#8217;s the sort of, the single, well, maybe not single, maybe there&#8217;s a few things that you can mention, what are the most compelling reasons that you would ever want to move away from a classic theme?</p>



<p>Let&#8217;s say that I&#8217;ve got a website, it&#8217;s working perfectly fine. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with it, but I&#8217;m kind of curious. I want to explore the option. What are the big ticket items why you would wish to move?</p>



<p>[00:06:19] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Well, a couple of reasons. Often the plugins that might be associated with your old theme may no longer being maintained. So there&#8217;s one situation where I mentioned in the presentation, they&#8217;re not being maintained, you won&#8217;t be able to update the PHP on your server and you could have a site that&#8217;s open to hacking and be slower therefore, because it&#8217;s running on a lower grade PHP.</p>



<p>So that&#8217;s one reason to do it. Another is once you start using the block theme editor, you don&#8217;t want to go back. And so, you know, I&#8217;ve always maintained my skills with WordPress. I&#8217;ve been active in the WordPress community. I&#8217;ve continued to learn. And, yes, I&#8217;ll admit when the block editor first came out, I was a little trepidatious. I didn&#8217;t use it that first year. But the second year I did, and the third year I did. And I have been using the latest theme every year, ever since when I build my client&#8217;s websites.</p>



<p>So I just don&#8217;t like going back to the classic and then like, okay, how do we do this? It just isn&#8217;t as intuitive. And as well, it&#8217;s easy to maintain, you don&#8217;t have as much opportunity to make changes as you do in the new block editor. So I&#8217;m just gradually updating my clients.</p>



<p>[00:07:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you have a background in code or are you more of a kind of mouse driven builder?</p>



<p>[00:07:38] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Do I have a background in code? I did a little HTML. I understand CSS and I certainly use that a lot with the classic theme, CSS especially. But that isn&#8217;t really where I trained in.</p>



<p>Really where my skill lies is working with my clients and creating a website that is unique to them. Every website I do is original. And I look at what colours they want, what values they want to display. And we design based on that.</p>



<p>And my clients love me. I mean, I&#8217;ve had clients over a decade. Still same clients, still working with me. And they trust me and I know it&#8217;s like, it&#8217;s time to upgrade your website and then we do that.</p>



<p>[00:08:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think one of the things about the classic themes was that having a deep knowledge of the code and the templating hierarchy in WordPress and those kind of things meant that it was available to some, but not necessarily to everybody.</p>



<p>Whereas the block based themes, the more modern WordPress, if you like, there is much more opportunity to get into the weeds. To do your templates and template parts and things like that with a visual editor.</p>



<p>So long as you can understand the UI, and where to find the menus, and where to construct the different parts of your website. And that promise of democratising publishing seems to be something that is being delivered, despite the fact that, you know, it&#8217;s a bit of a jump to go from classic to full site.</p>



<p>[00:08:58] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> It is, absolutely. My daughter&#8217;s wedding photographer contacted me. She&#8217;d had a website on Squarespace, and she found out after 10 years of working as a wedding photographer in southern Oregon, she was only on page five of search results. And that&#8217;s ridiculous, but it&#8217;s because of where she had her website.</p>



<p>So she switched it over to WordPress and was confused, what do I do next? She had bought a photographer theme, and so it was going to work perfect for her. And I said, you know what? You see those three lines at the top of the page when you go to edit the page, hit them. And she did.</p>



<p>And then it was like, oh, the light went on. So she&#8217;s going to contact me again when she&#8217;s got that built out. But now she understands what to do. All she needed to learn was those three lines because then she knows she can edit every single block in there, and knows what to do.</p>



<p>[00:09:49] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> If you were to look at the growth of WordPress over the last, I&#8217;m going to say sort of 10 years, something like that, the uptick in WordPress usage up to kind of 40 plus percent, whatever it is now, I think there&#8217;s been a lot of page builders responsible for that uptick. So for example, the likes of Elementor or what have you.</p>



<p>And it was curious that in the blurb that went with your presentation, you particularly pointed out, I think the quote was, no page builder is needed, or something that. Is that a big part of it for you, that you don&#8217;t need to rely on any third party tool, often which have a fee attached to them for an annual or a recurring license or something like that? Is like that a big part of it?</p>



<p>[00:10:22] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I&#8217;ve never used page builders. And I have friends in the industry who love page builders, rely on page builders, and I have happy clients and I&#8217;ve never used a page builder. And the site is unique to them. I don&#8217;t feel like adding on another layer.</p>



<p>I&#8217;ve had to change over websites where a page builder was used, and it was very heavy, and slow because there was so much code. And back in the day, an individual who was vision impaired couldn&#8217;t use it because the web reader that they were using couldn&#8217;t read through all this extra code. I just never used it for that reason.</p>



<p>But I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;re better now. I do believe that, but you don&#8217;t need them. When you have the block editor, you don&#8217;t need a page builder.</p>



<p>[00:11:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Are there any situations in which you wouldn&#8217;t ascribe the necessity to move over to a more modern, block based theme? In other words, is there any scenario where you look at somebody that&#8217;s on a classic theme and you say, you know what, just stay where you are, everything&#8217;s fine? Or are you always keen to promote people to move in this direction?</p>



<p>[00:11:25] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I&#8217;m not always keen to promote people. So I have a client who, oh gosh, she was part of the second wave feminist movement, and has a really great website people love. I built it for her in like 2015 and it&#8217;s still working fine. She can stay on it. She&#8217;s comfortable with it. You know, there&#8217;s no reason really, if it starts being an issue with the PHP levels and so forth, then I&#8217;ll talk to her about it.</p>



<p>[00:11:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I suppose there&#8217;s also, given the trends in graphic design and the way websites look, there&#8217;s always a moment in time where your website just begins to look stale on the front end.</p>



<p>[00:11:59] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Or it looks retro, or it looks cool. And the others all look the same. So there&#8217;s always that.</p>



<p>[00:12:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So that, if you like, was more about the why of you may wish to move over to a, away from a classic theme.</p>



<p>So let&#8217;s move into the sort of the how then because that I think is the crux of your presentation really, how to do it and you need to demonstrate on the screen and what have you. So let&#8217;s go through that process. What is the first thing that you do when you are looking to transfer somebody over?</p>



<p>[00:12:25] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Well, the first thing you do is you set up a staging site. I&#8217;m not saying doing this live. Bring up a staging site on your server. It&#8217;s your same website and all it is is the new URL that says staging, dot, blah, blah, whatever.</p>



<p>Then after your staging site is up, you activate your 2025 theme. You may want to use 2024. 2024 is a really good theme as well. I think the patterns in 2024 are maybe a little more geared toward business, and the patterns in 2025 may be a little more geared towards personal blogs and artists. But pick one.</p>



<p>So you have now have the 2025 theme, and it&#8217;s going to look very plain because it&#8217;s just plain until you fix it. And the next thing I usually do is I go through and start editing the pages. So a lot of my old themes, I put in the classic editor plugin. Remember the classic editor plugin?</p>



<p>[00:13:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I do, yeah.</p>



<p>[00:13:19] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Yeah, we were afraid of block editor so we all put classic editor on. And so it kind of keeps it looking classic. And, well, you deactivate that. And then when you go to a page or a blog post, you&#8217;ll see a little greyed block on the top of that content that says classic editor. You click it, and then it&#8217;ll say, convert to blocks. And this is where you just do it. You say, yes, I&#8217;m going to convert to blocks. You click it, and you got blocks.</p>



<p>Now, where you are going to find problems? But first of all, most of it deploys really well. Paragraphs deploy, they&#8217;re still paragraphs. Headers deploy, they&#8217;re still headers, et cetera, et cetera. But where you have columns, your original theme may have used some sort of a short code for columns that&#8217;s different than a block editor. So that may not convert.</p>



<p>Where you have embedded YouTube videos or something, you may decide to do them differently using the YouTube embed plugin instead of whatever code comes up. And you&#8217;ll get a little, if a paragraph doesn&#8217;t convert well or a block doesn&#8217;t convert well, it&#8217;ll say, you&#8217;ll know that.</p>



<p>But you still have your live site. So you can go there and find the content and put it back in. You know, it would would be cut and paste if you may have to chase down a YouTube link to embed a YouTube video. But it is all very doable and it&#8217;s pretty fast. It doesn&#8217;t take that long. I had a website with 200, over 200 blog posts that I had to do that on. That took a little while. But it was 200 blog posts, more than that actually. But for just a standard website with a dozen or so pages, it&#8217;s not hugely time consuming.</p>



<p>[00:14:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I guess the only problems that may occur is if some part of the, well, let&#8217;s say theme, but it may be a plugin, but it may be part of the theme was injecting something somewhere. And in the classic editor you don&#8217;t see it, but it somehow surfaces on the front end. I don&#8217;t know, it may be the insertion of an ad or something like that. And then you may run into problems because you can&#8217;t see where that content&#8217;s coming from.</p>



<p>But I suppose in your scenario, you&#8217;re just flicking backwards and forwards between the current live site, which is the classic one, and then you&#8217;ve got your staging site, which is the block based one. I guess it&#8217;s just a jigsaw puzzle really. You&#8217;re trying to figure out, okay, why is that missing? Where does that come from? How can I deploy it in blocks and go through that process? And hopefully on each iteration you get more and more back to what the original content was.</p>



<p>[00:15:38] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Right, exactly. That&#8217;s how you do it.</p>



<p>[00:15:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. And so it&#8217;s a process of going through it kind of one at a time.</p>



<p>Have you ever encountered something which you couldn&#8217;t solve in that scenario? Have you ever come across something where you just throw your hands in the air and think, what, where&#8217;s that?</p>



<p>[00:15:50] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> One time. So I had a website on a Studio Press theme, and I did the conversion. It all looked good to me. And then I realised when you were not logged into the site, the navigation didn&#8217;t show up properly. And I tried to figure that out and I redid the navigation. It looked good when you&#8217;re logged in, but when you&#8217;re just looking at the site not logged in, it wasn&#8217;t. So I ended up actually rebuilding that site entirely.</p>



<p>[00:16:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, interesting.</p>



<p>[00:16:17] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I just went ahead and brought up a whole new 2025 theme and copied and pasted content and brought it over.</p>



<p>[00:16:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so rather than having a staging site, well, you presumably did have a staging site, but it wasn&#8217;t a case of going into the posts or the pages and clicking the convert button. This more of a, okay, something&#8217;s broken here, I need to start from scratch.</p>



<p>[00:16:34] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Something&#8217;s broken, I couldn&#8217;t figure it, I mean, I&#8217;m sure if I were a coder, I would&#8217;ve dug into the code. But it&#8217;s like, it&#8217;s going to take me hours, it&#8217;s going to be easier in this case. It didn&#8217;t have a ton of content. There was like six or eight pages and maybe four or five blog posts. So it wasn&#8217;t that hard to do. It was easier to just bring up the new 2025 theme and start fresh.</p>



<p>[00:16:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, in the scenario where you&#8217;ve only got a handful of pages, it probably is literally quicker to do it that way and copy and paste.</p>



<p>[00:16:58] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Especially if you see an issue pop up immediately. It&#8217;s something, the navigation, I couldn&#8217;t figure out why that wasn&#8217;t working. But it was a Studio Press theme, so something was coming through from the old theme.</p>



<p>[00:17:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. And you mentioned that this whole process where you, you go to your staging site and you go into a post or a page, and there&#8217;s this bar at the top. The content is missing essentially. And there&#8217;s this bar, it&#8217;s a grey bar and it looks.</p>



<p>[00:17:23] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Well, the content is usually there.</p>



<p>[00:17:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, but it&#8217;s all in the wrong, it&#8217;s as it was essentially. So it&#8217;s not yet as blocks. And you click the button, wait a heartbeat, a moment, and the WordPress sort of process of migrating one to the other just sort of takes over. Paragraphs become paragraphs blocks, and on you go. I&#8217;ve yet to have that fail on me in a catastrophic way. It&#8217;s never done anything unexpected.</p>



<p>[00:17:45] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> It&#8217;s never failed catastrophically, not on me. And I&#8217;ve converted, even on that one website I just mentioned, the content converted great. It was just the navigation that was the issue. But I&#8217;ve used Canvas theme, which used to be produced by WooCommerce before it became a part of WordPress. And I&#8217;ve used, of course another theme on, that another website. So that content comes through actually, really easily.</p>



<p>[00:18:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You mentioned also that you are using the default theme in most cases. So you mentioned 2025, but also you said, I think perhaps try 2024 or something like that. Is that your kind of go-to? Do you explore the ecosystem of other themes that are out there in the environment, either the repo or possibly commercial themes, or you just heavily leaning into default themes?</p>



<p>[00:18:28] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I just lean into the default theme.</p>



<p>[00:18:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is there any particular reason for that? Because obviously, you know it&#8217;s going to be updated, which is really nice. You know that it&#8217;s a, well, it&#8217;s deployed on every WordPress website, a standard if you download a vanilla version of WordPress.</p>



<p>[00:18:39] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> It&#8217;ll be maintained for a long, long time. I know somebody who&#8217;s still in the 2015 theme and their site still works great.</p>



<p>[00:18:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, the backwards compatibility promise of WordPress is pretty remarkable.</p>



<p>[00:18:51] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> It&#8217;s pretty remarkable.</p>



<p>[00:18:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. Have you found limitations in those themes though? So one of the things that I think people wish were better would be, for example, things like navigation. You know, the options that you have in default blocks for navigation. Currently, there&#8217;s quite a lot of work going on to improve that as it happens. But are there any limitations that you&#8217;ve encountered where you thought, I wish it could do more?</p>



<p>[00:19:12] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I haven&#8217;t with the 2025, not recently anyway. But with 2024, I used a little bit of CSS in the navigation block. So add a little CSS.</p>



<p>[00:19:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, just tweak it a little bit. There&#8217;s a lot of requirements for maybe, I don&#8217;t know, mega menus, things like that, adaptations to the mobile menu that are not available in the blocks. And as we&#8217;re leaning more into kind of like a no code environment with block based themes.</p>



<p>[00:19:35] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> I have used a plugin for mega menus on one of my clients.</p>



<p>[00:19:37] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. So you take care of that in a different way by using plugins? Yeah, okay. That kind of makes sense.</p>



<p>Okay, so that&#8217;s the bits and pieces perhaps about the sort of how you do it.</p>



<p>[00:19:46] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> And the reason I used the mega menu plugin for that client was he had very specific ideas of how he wanted his navigation to look on cell phone.</p>



<p>[00:19:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, because it is fairly limited what you get out of the box. There&#8217;s not too many options and think the community is possibly moving towards having something a little bit better in the, yeah, a bit more full featured, let&#8217;s put it that way.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s a curious question, do you see any need for more than a single theme in the WordPress space anymore? So in other words, now that we&#8217;re leaning into an era where all of the bits and pieces that would&#8217;ve been handled by the theme is now handled by the interface of the block-based theme. So, for example, all of your templates is within the UI of full site editing and what have you. Do we even need a whole bunch of themes?</p>



<p>Could we just have a single theme which did the bare bones, maybe headers, footers, menus, that kind of thing. And then all of it is done by patterns or templates, which can be pointed on and clicked in, in the interface?</p>



<p>[00:20:44] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Well, I think that it&#8217;s good to have themes, and I&#8217;ll tell you why. My daughter&#8217;s wedding photographer. She is not a website designer. You know, she was used to using Squarespace, realised that the SEO on it sucked and decided to go to WordPress and found a great photography theme from a good maker of themes. I had no problem with it. I looked at it. And all she needed was a little tip on how to see where her blocks were and what the block is. She&#8217;s just going to be able to go with that.</p>



<p>Now if she was starting from scratch with no theme to work with, and just trying to figure it out, I think it&#8217;d be a lot harder for her. But having a template that&#8217;s like, here&#8217;s your photography template, she can put her own pictures in there. She understands the concept, and she&#8217;ll be able to build her own website with it.</p>



<p>[00:21:36] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you find it&#8217;s easier for your clients then to work with the block based themes than it was with the classic themes?</p>



<p>[00:21:43] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Yes.</p>



<p>[00:21:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I find sometimes it&#8217;s difficult to kind of work out where you are in the UI. You know, you&#8217;ve clicked on a bunch of things and you can&#8217;t figure out how to get back to where you were, things like that. But then if I weigh that up against how difficult it was with classic themes, where you had to basically have a code editor open at some point and be editing template, PHP files, and things like this. Although it&#8217;s a bit confusing navigating around the UI, I think even the people developing WordPress would say, yes, there&#8217;s a bit of work to be done on the UI. I think on the whole, it&#8217;s much easier, but I don&#8217;t know what your clients think.</p>



<p>[00:22:13] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> You know how I explained to my clients, I said, if you use Mac, can you put together a Pages document and maybe add some images, can you do that? And they say, yes. I said, well, if they&#8217;re using Microsoft, can you do the same thing? Yes, I can. Well, then you can use the block theme.</p>



<p>Because once it&#8217;s set up, I mean, I think that there&#8217;s certain areas that are a little more tricky and for our clients, I&#8217;ll say, look, don&#8217;t get into the editor. Do not do full site editing. Let me do that. If you want to add something to the navigation, just tell me, I&#8217;ll edit it. It&#8217;s not a big deal. It takes me five minutes. They&#8217;re going to have to figure it out, because it&#8217;s only something they&#8217;re going to do once in a while when they change their navigation.</p>



<p>But for any of their pages, you know, they know how to hit the three lines, see what block they&#8217;re in, click it, it lights up the block on the right hand side, and then they can do the editing to the right of that. They can do it.</p>



<p>[00:23:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you lean into the feature of locking blocks? Because it sounds like you&#8217;ve got a fairly close relationship with your clients. You&#8217;re probably able to get on the phone with them and things like that, have that communication. So you can just say, don&#8217;t touch that, leave that alone, and that&#8217;s fine.</p>



<p>But obviously in different scenarios where, I don&#8217;t know, it might be more corporate, that kind of thing, the capacity within native WordPress to exclude the client from being able to edit that.</p>



<p>So as an example, yeah, you can change the text on that block, but it&#8217;s a cover block, but we&#8217;re not going to allow you to change the background image. Or conversely, you can change the background image, but you can&#8217;t change the text, those kind of things. So these are sort of new features which have crept in over time, and I&#8217;m not sure how many people use those, whether or not that would be of interest to you and your clients.</p>



<p>[00:23:45] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> You know, it&#8217;s their website. They may be on my servers that I&#8217;m hosting, but it&#8217;s their website and if they really want to mess it up, they can. And I can fix it. But really, it&#8217;s not a problem.</p>



<p>There&#8217;s been a few times, I have one client who adds content and he happened to add it all in tables. I don&#8217;t know why or how. I had to fix it on one of his pages. But, you know, I fixed it and the content is there down and it&#8217;s not in a table.</p>



<p>[00:24:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you build into your process, when you have converted something from classic to block base, do you have like an education piece in the middle there somewhere?</p>



<p>[00:24:18] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Oh, yes.</p>



<p>[00:24:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So time to show the client how to use it. Because obviously they may be very familiar with classic editing, or it may be something that they&#8217;re not really dabbling in that much. Either way, it&#8217;s not at all like the new thing. And how do you do that? Do you allocate time? Do you have videos prepared or just sit next to them in their offices?</p>



<p>[00:24:35] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> You know, we usually do it as like a Zoom call. They share their screen. Well, actually, during the process, there&#8217;ll be times when I&#8217;m on the phone in a Zoom call with the client or a Google Meet call with the client, and I&#8217;m showing them what I&#8217;m doing on my end. So that&#8217;s part of the education process.</p>



<p>And we talk about, okay, do you like this font? No, I don&#8217;t like this one. Okay, well, how about this one? They see me change things back and forth. I put up content and they say, oh, we want to edit that. We want to rephrase it like this.</p>



<p>So if we&#8217;re doing it on a Zoom call, it&#8217;s going back and forth, they see how I&#8217;m working. And I make a point, oh, see how I hit these three lines, and we can edit this paragraph block, let&#8217;s put a background on this paragraph block. Here&#8217;s how you do it. So they learn how to do that, just kind of as we&#8217;re building it.</p>



<p>And then when it&#8217;s done, I will definitely show them how, anything they want to change. And I&#8217;ll walk through them how to add a blog post, for example. Usually the pages are pretty dialed in by the time we go live, it&#8217;s exactly where they want. So they might need to learn how to add blog posts. And I&#8217;ll introduce them to the blocks I think they&#8217;re going to use. They don&#8217;t need to know how to do every single block because there&#8217;s so many blocks.</p>



<p>[00:25:46] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. Do you switch some of them off, make them unavailable? I don&#8217;t know, there&#8217;s things like the Animoto Block, which goodness knows whoever was using that, I don&#8217;t know. But it&#8217;s there. I think most clients don&#8217;t need them. And having the capacity to switch some blocks off, quite a nice idea.</p>



<p>[00:26:00] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> You can. I haven&#8217;t done that.</p>



<p>[00:26:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, okay. And are there any common gotchas? When you&#8217;ve gone through this process multiple times, is there anything which comes out the other end which is reliably strange to the client? You know, okay every client&#8217;s reporting back either, nothing, this is brilliant, it&#8217;s a hundred percent, I&#8217;m all on board. Or do you have common things which you have to explain over and over again to the different clients because it&#8217;s just quirky?</p>



<p>[00:26:21] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> There&#8217;s a couple clients that are boards, nonprofit boards, and so then I have to explain it over and over again.</p>



<p>[00:26:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And is that because of the nature of.</p>



<p>[00:26:31] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Because the person I&#8217;m talking to changes.</p>



<p>[00:26:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, okay.</p>



<p>[00:26:34] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Sometimes clients will want something I don&#8217;t really feel like I can deliver. So I have a client who wants full with image, with content on top of it, and wants it to be a slider. So there&#8217;ll be a full width image with content and a button, and then another full width image with content and a button. It&#8217;s a slider. So I created this.</p>



<p>And then when it was done, they were like, well, I want the whole image to show on a cell phone. I had to explain, if that entire image gets so narrow that it shows on a cell phone and it&#8217;s not very tall, your content won&#8217;t fit in it. And it was really hard to accept. So that kind of thing can occur.</p>



<p>[00:27:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I mean, it&#8217;s not for everybody, but I feel at this point, this is the future of WordPress. This is the way it&#8217;s going to go. This is what most people are talking about and what have you. Just getting into your presentation later, firstly, good luck with it. I hope it goes well.</p>



<p>[00:27:26] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Thank you.</p>



<p>[00:27:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> How are you tackling this subject? Are you going to be doing slides? Because it&#8217;ll be curious, the audience, presumably in front of you are, well, we&#8217;re at WordCamp. Presumably they are a bunch of WordPressers. I&#8217;m curious to know at what level you are pitching it.</p>



<p>[00:27:39] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> You know, I think somebody who&#8217;s fairly new to WordPress will be able to get a lot out of this. I think it&#8217;s geared towards somebody with a little bit of experience, not a lot.</p>



<p>I&#8217;m going to talk about three different websites. One of them was actually built in 2006 on Blogger. I wasn&#8217;t the one that built it. And two other websites. And I&#8217;m going to talk a little bit about the City of Portland, so people who come to this, even if they know everything I&#8217;m talking about will learn a little bit about the City of Portland.</p>



<p>[00:28:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And this is all filmed as well, which is kind of nice. And these days those videos tend to get turned around pretty quickly. Long gone is the day that you would attend a WordCamp and then six months, a year later, the video would still be stuck in somebody&#8217;s hard disk.</p>



<p>Hopefully by the time this podcast episode drops, that will be out and we&#8217;ll be able to watch your presentation. I think I&#8217;ve asked everything that I wish to ask. Is there anything that you think that we didn&#8217;t touch during our conversation?</p>



<p>[00:28:31] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> There is.</p>



<p>[00:28:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Go for it.</p>



<p>[00:28:32] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> While I was building the site with 200 blog posts, I discovered a little, what I thought was a glitch. And it turns out it&#8217;s a feature. But if you were a developer, you think it&#8217;s a feature. So in the 2025 theme, when you go to templates, you go to your website editor and you go to patterns, and then you have the header, the footer, and the page templates.</p>



<p>For the blog page, I pick a page template for the blog page, just that one. And then I can go in and I can select the style of my query loop. So if I want a query loop that&#8217;s just a picture on the left and content on the right for that blog page, and then people can scroll through and see all the different blog posts.</p>



<p>I picked one that was different than that. So I picked it, and then I deployed it, and then I went to the blog page and looked at it and it looked great. Except when I hit next page, it returned to the same page. It never was advancing to all these other 200 blog posts. And I was like, what happened here?</p>



<p>So I went back to the template, page, templates, blog page, picked a different query loop. Same thing. Picked a third query loop. Ah, this one worked. I could advance to the next pages. So then I was curious, why is this?</p>



<p>So I went back to that template, hit the three line dropdown arrow, looked at every single block in there and saw a pagination block that had not been in the others at the bottom of the group. So then I copied that and I put it in. And voila, my original one worked, I was very happy with it.</p>



<p>So I went yesterday to the Contributor Day and I sat at the Core Performance table, and normally not where I would belong, and said, this is your issue, it&#8217;s got to be fixed. And they looked at it, and a couple more people looked at it, and then they explained to me that not all query loops are used on the blog page. Some might be used on a landing page. And you may not want a next pages on every one of your query loops, so it&#8217;s not there on everyone.</p>



<p>[00:30:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of interesting that it got there on one of them. And I think this is something that can be quite confusing, things like that, which in the old world, you would&#8217;ve dropped in as a short code. And in order to get that short code, you would&#8217;ve gone into some other UI and configured it all, and then the short code would&#8217;ve been spat out with the correct parameters to do what you wanted. So there might have been a toggle for show pagination, take pagination off, and what have you. And then the short code would ultimately do that.</p>



<p>In the block editor, this kind of thing happens fairly frequently in that there are nested blocks. And if you don&#8217;t deploy the nested blocks, so for example, if you didn&#8217;t know that pagination was a separate block, which usually sits outside of the query loop, usually below it in the same group or something like that, it&#8217;s easy to think, well, it ought to be there. Why isn&#8217;t it there? And sometimes you have to go find that pagination block, insert it in the right place and what have you.</p>



<p>Yeah, so things like that, if you don&#8217;t see it, you don&#8217;t see it. It&#8217;s not intuitive to think that it ought to be there. And I can think of probably dozens of examples of that kind of thing where blocks that you may rely on are in fact nested blocks of other blocks, and they may not come in automatically.</p>



<p>So, yeah, it&#8217;s a process of figuring that out, and maybe a toggle inside the query loop block saying, just enable pagination, turn it off, or something like that.</p>



<p>[00:32:11] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> That might be helpful. But I was able to fix it, and I realise now that it actually is a feature because they can, you can go to those query loops and look at all sorts of query loops that you might use elsewhere on your website. So I thought it was great to go to Contributor Day. I contributed and I learned.</p>



<p>[00:32:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s really nice. And people were able to explain it to you. Yeah, definitely a thing if you come to a WordCamp, certainly of this magnitude, attend the Contributor Day. And it&#8217;s not just a process of contributing, it can be a process of sitting next to people who are working and asking them questions and thereby upping your own knowledge.</p>



<p>[00:32:44] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> And I don&#8217;t think that they were aware of it until I pointed it out.</p>



<p>[00:32:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, they&#8217;re in the weeds of deploying it, and they may not consider all the use cases. And in this case, you had one in which it didn&#8217;t work as expected. I guess from their point of view, everything that they said is probably true. You know, it may be deployed in this way, it may not, and so we built it in such a way that you can have the pagination or not, but nevertheless, you kind of needed it right away.</p>



<p>Well, that&#8217;s brilliant. Thank you so much Mary. Appreciate you chatting to me today.</p>



<p>Where can we find you if people would like to reach out about anything you&#8217;ve talked about? Where&#8217;s the best places?</p>



<p>[00:33:14] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> On my website is waterlinkweb.com. You can find me there. I&#8217;m on Instagram at Water Link Web. I have a LinkedIn, Mary Ann Aschenbrenner at LinkedIn. And I think that does it.</p>



<p>[00:33:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, thank you very much. I&#8217;ll make sure all those bits and pieces get into the show notes. So head to wptavern.com, search for the episode with Mary Ann Aschenbrenner. I will hopefully speak to you another time. Thank you very much for chatting to me.</p>



<p>[00:33:40] <strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner:</strong> Thank you very much, Nathan.</p>
</div></details>



<p>On the podcast today we have <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryannaschenbrenner/">Mary Ann Aschenbrenner</a>.</p>



<p>Mary Ann has been the President of Waterlink Web, a digital agency specialising in WordPress web design since 2014. Her experience includes e-Commerce and membership websites, websites for local nonprofit organisations, and starter websites for small businesses. As a life-long learner, Mary Ann likes to keep pace with the latest innovations in WordPress. She is a fan of block themes and particularly the WordPress default themes.</p>



<p>We start by discussing the differences between classic and block themes, with Mary Ann offering practical, step-by-step advice for anyone considering a move from a classic theme to a modern block-based theme. She talks about why you might want to make the switch, potential challenges to look out for, and stories from her own experience converting client sites.</p>



<p>We also chat about the evolution of WordPress, the diminishing need for third-party page builders, the importance of client education, and the ongoing improvements in the block editor. Plus, Mary Ann shares insights from her WordCamp presentation, and her experiences collaborating with the WordPress community.</p>



<p>Whether you’re a seasoned WordPresser, or are just starting out, and keen to know how block themes are making site building more accessible for everyone, this episode is for you.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Useful links</h2>



<p><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryannaschenbrenner/overlay/about-this-profile/">Mary Ann Aschenbrenner</a> on LinkedIn</p>



<p><a href="https://waterlinkweb.com/">Waterlink Web</a></p>



<p><a href="https://friendsofpierpark.org/">Friends of Pier Park website</a></p>



<p><a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2025/session/moving-a-website-from-classic-to-a-block-theme/">Moving a Website from Classic to a Block Theme</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.studiopress.com/"> StudioPress</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.blogger.com/">Blogger</a></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 17 Sep 2025 14:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Nathan Wrigley";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:8;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:113:"Open Channels FM: How to Make Your Open Web Content Last Forever: Effortless, Permanent Backups and Media Storage";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=108637";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:118:"https://openchannels.fm/how-to-make-your-open-web-content-last-forever-effortless-permanent-backups-and-media-storage/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:360:"The open web is a patchwork of ideas, creativity, and discovery that thrives on its openness and diversity. But what happens when websites go offline, hosting bills lapse, or platforms disappear? The reality is that content is lost every day to link rot, expired services, and vanished archives while silently erasing important stories and knowledge. [&#8230;]";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 17 Sep 2025 13:29:01 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:9;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:90:"Open Channels FM: GoDaddy’s New AI Site Designer: From Idea to WordPress Site in Minutes";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=109724";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:93:"https://openchannels.fm/godaddys-new-ai-site-designer-from-idea-to-wordpress-site-in-minutes/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:157:"Our sponsor GoDaddy's Airo Site Designer is an AI tool that quickly creates WordPress sites from simple prompts, making it easy for anyone to go online fast.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 17 Sep 2025 09:36:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:10;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:21:"Matt: United Starlink";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:38:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/united-starlink/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:38:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/united-starlink/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:978:"<p>I’m on my first United flight with Starlink, and wow! I ran a <a href="https://fast.com/">fast.com</a> test and got 110 mbps down and 38 mbps up, which is insane.  28ms ping times. While flying! When you think of all of the engineering and technology coming together to let me blog this it’s really incredible.</p>



<p>Update 2025-09-16: United actually responded to my tweet about this. <img alt="😂" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f602.png" style="height: 1em;" /></p>



<figure class="wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-twitter wp-block-embed-twitter"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<div class="embed-twitter"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p dir="ltr" lang="en">Entertainment at 35,000 feet has never been better (or faster)! ?</p>&mdash; United Airlines (@united) <a href="https://twitter.com/united/status/1968318805018632648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 17, 2025</a></blockquote></div>
</div></figure>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 17 Sep 2025 00:05:41 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:11;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:92:"Open Channels FM: How WordPress Playground Is Opening Doors to Inclusive Learning Everywhere";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=108627";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:99:"https://openchannels.fm/how-wordpress-playground-is-opening-doors-to-inclusive-learning-everywhere/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:204:"WordPress Playground revolutionizes web development by providing a browser-based platform for learning and experimentation, making it accessible globally, particularly for users in resource-limited areas.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 16 Sep 2025 12:55:08 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:12;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:81:"Open Channels FM: From Print Design to Podcasting, the Scenic Route to Creativity";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=109666";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:87:"https://openchannels.fm/from-print-design-to-podcasting-the-scenic-route-to-creativity/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:156:"In this episode, BobWP shares the launching his blog and podcast, Bob's Wild Pathways, filled with honest stories and insights from his creative adventures.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 16 Sep 2025 10:11:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:13;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:15:"Matt: Retention";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149819";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/retention/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:120:"<p>Andrew Chen <a href="https://x.com/andrewchen/status/1965419750525431873?s=46">has a great post on retention</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 16 Sep 2025 04:40:11 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:14;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:22:"Matt: Weekend YouTubes";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149801";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:39:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/weekend-youtubes/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:3290:"<p>One of my favorite YouTubers is <a href="https://charlescornellstudios.com/">Charles Cornell</a> (WordPress-powered!), who <span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">creates great videos </span>that break down the music theory of various things you’ve heard, such as this adorable one featuring <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-fv_oyYhqc">SNES soundtracks</a> or <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRRSWmZrJGs">The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild</a>. I first came across him <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Popdt3NYgU">reacting to Jacob Collier in 2020</a>. Once I got super-into Severance, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQg1TMEEPnQ">his breakdown of the spooky music is great</a>. It’s also interesting to see that the YouTube community is going through its own version of fair use and copyright, trademark, etc., enforcement, which he discusses <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GrLFQ26jFs">here</a>.</p>



<p><a href="https://blog.samaltman.com/">Sam Altman</a> is always interesting to follow, and it&#8217;s interesting to contrast this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pxmdmlJCG0">great interview he did with David Perell on writing</a> with this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KmpT-BoVf4">very direct and awkward one with Tucker Carlson</a>. I have immense respect for anyone who enters the arena and engages directly with journalists or critics, rather than hiding behind PR agents or lawyers. Given the current blood feud, it&#8217;s fun to go back eight years and <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnBQmEqBCY0">see Sam Altman interview Elon Musk</a>, long before any of the AI stuff blew up they were both terribly prescient.</p>



<p>Ray Dalio is always a gem and <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49RT6SQ8n0Y">he went on Diary of a CEO</a>. Theo Browne <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TMPWvPG5GA">has a good take on what it means to vibe code</a>. Kishan Bagaria <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsfdRY-K2s">discusses how Beeper is going to reach 100  million users</a>. The story of how Atlassian took a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SKUw3w2FEg">non-traditional enterprise path with Jay Simons is great</a>. Not a YouTube, but don&#8217;t miss <a href="https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/773904/sierra-ceo-bret-taylor-ai-agents-openai-bubble-interview">Bret Taylor on The Verge</a>. Check out <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N7XvGaQ72E">Adam D&#8217;Angelo at South Park Commons</a>.</p>



<p>And finally, I&#8217;ll say that <a href="https://www.youtube.com/premium">YouTube Premium</a>, which turns off all the ads, is probably one of the highest value subscriptions you can have. <span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Many of these are essentially like podcasts, and from a product perspective, I think we need to figure out how to sync and allow seamless movement between watching, listening, or reading transcripts</span> in <a href="https://pocketcasts.com/">Pocket Casts</a> (Automattic&#8217;s open-source podcasting app). We support video podcasts, but there&#8217;s no good way yet to have a <a href="https://www.audible.com/ep/wfs">Whispersync-like</a> experience between video, audio, and a transcript.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sun, 14 Sep 2025 23:23:42 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:15;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:24:"Matt: Old Business Cards";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149786";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:41:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/old-business-cards/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2624:"<p><br />I recently came across a few old business cards I designed back in 1999. The first ones were for my services as a saxophone player:</p>



<figure class="wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex">
<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149788" height="336" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/business-card-blue-1024x569.jpg?resize=604%2C336&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149787" height="345" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/business-card-yellow-1024x585.jpg?resize=604%2C345&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>
</figure>



<p>A few notes:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>I went mostly by “Matthew” then.</li>



<li>At some point I decided to remove the home address and say that I was available to play not just alto saxophone but baritone, tenor, and soprano as well.</li>



<li>The number was the home shared house number, not a cell phone.</li>



<li>The email was an email address the entire family shared, under my dad’s name.</li>



<li><a href="https://www.hal-pc.org/">HAL-PC</a> was an amazing non-profit local to Houston that stood for the “Houston Area League of PC users.” There was a pretty reasonable annual membership fee, and they hosted a monthly general meeting which had hundreds of attendees, always with a presentation or two and a raffle giveaway at the end. They were a dial-up ISP and BBS/newsgroup host. I volunteered for them by going in on Saturdays where they had a room people could bring their broken computers to and get free tech support, and by hosting a SIG, or special-interest group, around PalmOS called <a href="https://hpug.org/">HPUG</a>, the Houston Palm Users Group. This was a big part of the inspiration for WordCamps.</li>
</ul>



<p>This was for my “design” business:</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149789" height="345" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/business-card-design-1024x585.jpg?resize=604%2C345&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>



<p><br />I would also design business cards for friends, here’s one for my friend who was a percussionist and vibraphonist, Chase Jordan: </p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149790" height="362" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/business-card-chase-jordan.jpg?resize=604%2C362&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sun, 14 Sep 2025 02:50:47 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:16;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:107:"Gutenberg Times: Licensing for AI, Patterns, Gutenberg 21.6, and future of WordPress—Weekend Edition #340";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=41777";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:112:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/licensing-for-ai-patterns-gutenberg-21-6-and-future-of-wordpress-weekend-edition-340/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:26136:"<p>Hi there,</p>





<p>Welcome to the WCUS Part 2. The workshop recordings are online, and my chat with other dev advocates has also been published. You can read about it in this article, which includes the video: <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-ai-and-the-generational-shift-insights-from-wcus-creators-studio/">WordPress, AI, and the generational shift: insights from #WCUS Creators Studio</a>. </p>


<div class="ng-block-9e3e818e492ef403 wp-block-newsletterglue-image ng-block size-large is-resized" width="100%"><div><div><div align="center" class="ng-block-td" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px;"><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-ai-and-the-generational-shift-insights-from-wcus-creators-studio/"><img alt="In the WCUS Creators Studio: Brian Coords, Jonathan Bossenger, Birgit Pauli-Haack, Ryan Welcher" class="wp-image-41835 ng-image" height="337" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-10-at-15.46.21.jpg?resize=600%2C337&#038;ssl=1" style="border-style: none; border-color: transparent;" width="600" /></a></div></div></div></div>


<div class="wp-block-spacer" style="height: 20px;"></div>



<p>A few publishers assembled to come up with a <a href="https://rslstandard.org/">license standard for machines</a>, aka AI. As site builders, or owners, you&#8217;ll be interested that there has been some work on the way. More below.</p>



<p>Have a splendid weekend ahead! </p>



<p>Yours, <img alt="💕" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f495.png" style="height: 1em;" /><br /><em>Birgit</em></p>


<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-group" style="padding-top: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow">
<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>



<nav class="wp-block-table-of-contents"><ol><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/licensing-for-ai-patterns-gutenberg-21-6-and-future-of-wordpress-weekend-edition-340/#wordcamp-us">WordCamp US </a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/licensing-for-ai-patterns-gutenberg-21-6-and-future-of-wordpress-weekend-edition-340/#0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/licensing-for-ai-patterns-gutenberg-21-6-and-future-of-wordpress-weekend-edition-340/#0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/licensing-for-ai-patterns-gutenberg-21-6-and-future-of-wordpress-weekend-edition-340/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/licensing-for-ai-patterns-gutenberg-21-6-and-future-of-wordpress-weekend-edition-340/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor.</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/licensing-for-ai-patterns-gutenberg-21-6-and-future-of-wordpress-weekend-edition-340/#new-in-the-playground-world">New in the Playground world</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/licensing-for-ai-patterns-gutenberg-21-6-and-future-of-wordpress-weekend-edition-340/#ai-news">AI News</a></li></ol></nav>
</div></div>
</section>


<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="wordcamp-us">WordCamp US </h2>



<p>As mentioned, the recordings of the Workshop are now online. The block and site editor related ones are: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/05/the-block-developer-cookbook/">The Block Developer Cookbook</a> with Ryan Welcher</li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/05/launch-your-personal-portfolio-a-hands-on-wordpress-workshop/">Launch Your Personal Portfolio — A Hands-On WordPress Workshop</a> w/ Jamie Marsland. </li>
</ul>



<p>If you are more interested in AI and development, these might be for you: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/05/turn-your-local-wordpress-install-into-your-ai-coding-assistant/">Turn Your Local WordPress Install Into Your AI Coding Assistant</a> with Jonathan Bossenger</li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/05/scalable-ethical-ai-how-to-own-your-content-and-your-ai-with-wordpress/">Scalable, Ethical AI: How to Own Your Content and Your AI with WordPress</a> with Jeff Paul </li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/unlock-developer-superpowers-with-ai/">Unlock Developer Superpowers with AI</a> with Adam Silverstein</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>



<p>It was <strong>Ryan Welcher</strong>&#8216;s turn to publish this month&#8217;s <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/09/whats-new-for-developers-september-2025/"><strong>What’s new for developers? (September 2025</strong>)</a>. The updates include: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Composer package for the Abilities API now available for early testing ahead of WordPress 6.9</li>



<li>Four experimental Accordion blocks (Accordion, Accordion Item, Accordion Header, Accordion Panel) powered by the Interactivity API. </li>



<li>Theme.json now supports styling form elements, including text inputs and select dropdowns. </li>



<li>Data Views received multiple enhancements, including infinite scroll and card layouts. </li>



<li>The Date block now supports custom dates and block bindings </li>



<li>A new Query Loop Title block variation displays post type labels. </li>



<li>WordPress Playground added support for multiple theme installations and new CLI flags, plus PHP debugging improvements through XDebug Bridge. </li>



<li>The AI team released stable versions of core libraries and introduced new development tools. </li>
</ul>



<p>For details and more, you need to <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/09/whats-new-for-developers-september-2025/">read the post</a>. <img alt="🤗" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f917.png" style="height: 1em;" /> </p>



<p class="has-accent-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-d65ff08da66da2d111d02250490fde35">Don&#8217;t miss a new article on the WordPress developer blog again. <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/subscribe/">Subscribe! </a></p>



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<p><a href="https://x.com/cbravobernal"><strong>Carlos Bravo</strong></a> managed the release of Gutenberg 21.6 and highlights in his post <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/09/10/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-6-10-september/"><strong>What’s new in Gutenberg 21.6? (10 September)</strong></a>: </p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/09/10/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-6-10-september/#new-accordion-button">New add accordion button</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/09/10/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-6-10-september/#improved-dataviews-grid">Improved DataViews grid interface.</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/09/10/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-6-10-september/#inputs">Form elements  now support global styles</a></li>
</ol>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41891" height="291" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-13-at-14.03.46.png?resize=652%2C291&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p><img alt="🎙" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f399.png" style="height: 1em;" /> The latest episode is <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-120-wordcamp-us-telex-gutenberg-21-4-and-21-5/">Gutenberg Changelog 120—WordCamp US, Automattic Telex, Gutenberg 21.4 and 21.5, and the need for more blocks</a> with special guest <strong>Sarah Norris. </strong></p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full is-style-no-vertical-margin"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41771" height="207" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-05-at-14.12.23-edited.png?resize=652%2C207&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<p class="has-small-font-size"><em>If you are listening via Spotify, please leave a comment. If you listen via other podcast apps, please leave a review. It&#8217;ll help with the distribution.</em></p>
</div></div>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>



<p>In her latest post, <a href="https://wordpress.com/blog/2025/09/10/pattern-system-wordpress-publishing-workflow/"><strong>The Pattern System: Publish Faster with Reusable WordPress Layouts</strong></a>, <strong>Anam Hassan</strong> breaks down how WordPress Patterns can save you tons of time by letting you reuse the same layouts over and over instead of rebuilding them from scratch. She explains three types: synced patterns that automatically update everywhere when you change them once, unsynced patterns that give you the same starting template but let you customize each one differently, and locked patterns that keep your design safe when other people are writing content. </p>



<p><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/06/an-introduction-to-overrides-in-synced-patterns/">Synced pattern overrides</a> are however missing from the post.  </p>



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<p>Tune in to the latest episode of the <em>WP Behind the Builds</em> podcast on Open Channels. <a href="https://openchannels.fm/the-founders-of-podcaster-plus-share-product-development-experiences-and-community-insights/"><strong>The Founders of Podcaster Plus Share Product Development Experiences and Community Insights</strong></a>. Host <strong>Mark Westguard</strong> speaks with <strong>Dan Maby</strong> and <strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong>, founders of Podcaster Plus, about their new WordPress plugin designed to simplify podcast publishing and customize audio players. The plugin uses the Interactivity API for modular blocks like play buttons and volume controls, enabling users to create personalized audio players. Podcaster Plus automates publishing by generating posts for new episodes in RSS feeds and offers add-ons for custom post types, SEO, and automation. </p>



<p><em>You can sign up for the beta of the new plugin at the website <a href="https://www.podcasterplus.com/">PodcasterPlus.</a></em></p>



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<p>At WordCamp Sofia last year, <strong>Jordan Hlebarov</strong> explored in his talk <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/08/15/gutenberg-in-action-how-the-block-editor-simplifies-client-workflows-and-boosts-agency-efficiency/"><strong>how the Gutenberg block editor simplifies the workflow for both agencies and clients</strong></a>, by making content management more intuitive and efficient, as well as how it benefits both clients and streamlines agency operations. The <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/08/15/gutenberg-in-action-how-the-block-editor-simplifies-client-workflows-and-boosts-agency-efficiency/">video</a> is now available on WordPressTV and also offers <a href="https://sofia.wordcamp.org/2024/files/2025/05/hlebarov-WordCamp-Sofia-2024-1.pdf">a link to the slides</a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>



<p>On the <em>WordPress Developer Blog</em>, Justin Tadlock published an in-depth tutorial on <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/09/building-a-light-dark-toggle-with-the-interactivity-api/"><strong>Building a light/dark toggle with the Interactivity API</strong></a>. He demonstrates creating a toggle that works without custom blocks using modern CSS techniques and WordPress APIs. The tutorial covers theme setup, color scheme storage using user meta and cookies, implementing the toggle button with interactivity directives, adding JavaScript functionality, styling with icons, and registering a block variation for easy editor insertion, resulting in a complete light/dark mode toggle for block themes. <em>You can <a href="https://blockdevelopercookbook.com/recipes/block-transforms/">follow along on the Block Developer Cook Book website. </a></em></p>



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<p><a href="https://x.com/RinodeBoer"><strong>Rino de Boer</strong></a> normally uses Elementor to build sites. Recently he explored Block themes and the 2025 default theme. You can follow along via his YouTube video <strong><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl-YZtMZsTc">Exploring WordPress Block Themes (Spectra, Raft, Ollie, TT5 &amp; more) — Live Test</a></strong></p>


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<p><strong>Jason Crist</strong> published a new plugin: <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/synced-patterns-for-themes/"><strong>Synced Patterns for Themes.</strong></a> He writes in the description, &#8220;This plugin enables theme developers to ship patterns that behave as synced patterns (reusable blocks) while maintaining the benefits of theme-bundled patterns. When a theme pattern is marked as synced, it automatically becomes available as a reusable block that updates across all instances when modified.&#8221; The plugin description also elaborates on the features and how to use it. </p>



<p>Crist also authored the <strong><a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/pattern-builder/">Pattern Builder</a></strong> plugin, you can also find in the repository. &#8220;Pattern Builder transforms how you work with WordPress block patterns, providing a comprehensive solution for creating, managing, and organizing patterns right from your WordPress admin.&#8221; </p>



<p><em>I have not tested these plugins. Use at your own risk!</em></p>



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<p><strong>Bud Kraus </strong>again has a great tutorial to unregister all kinds of core block features, i.e., block styles, blocks, or theme style variations. He shows you example code and also what happens when things are unregistered that were already in use. Check out his blog post on Kinsta: <a href="https://kinsta.com/blog/unregister-style-variations/"><strong>Unregistering style variations in a WordPress block theme.</strong></a></p>


<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-callout undefined not-color-set" style="border-color: #f9f9e5; border-radius: 22px; border-style: solid; border-width: 0; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: left; margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; background-color: #f9f9e5;">
<p><strong> <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2025&#8221;</a> </strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/">2020</a> | <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/">2021</a></strong> | <strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/">2022</a></strong></strong> | <strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023">2023</a></strong> | <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2024/"><strong>2024</strong></a></p>
</section>


<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor.</h2>



<p><strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> chips away at his Block Development Cookbook series on YouTube. In the video <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBORsxDzwu0"><strong>How To Convert WordPress Blocks Into (Almost) Anything!</strong></a>, you learn how to enable transforms for your blocks, a way to migrate a current block into a different block. The block editor has a few transforms out of the box, like changing the content of a paragraph block into a list block. Or a into a Quote block without losing the content. Ryan helps you solve this using the transform API for your custom blocks.</p>


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<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="new-in-the-playground-world">New in the Playground world</h2>



<p>In his post, <a href="https://www.pootlepress.com/2025/08/no-servers-no-installs-just-a-link-and-a-complete-wordpress-site-appears/"><strong>The future of WordPress? A complete website from nothing but a link, </strong></a> <strong>Jamie Marsland</strong> explores how WordPress Playground runs entirely in your browser without servers or setup, and Blueprints transform it from a demo into a powerful tool. Blueprints are recipes that create complete professional websites with one click, benefiting agencies, educators, freelancers, and developers. Marsland built <a href="https://pootleplayground.com/">PootlePlayground.com</a> and <a href="https://PootleSites.com">PootleSites.com</a> to expand Blueprint creation capabilities. The future roadmap aims to push these temporary browser sites into permanent hosting.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="ai-news">AI News</h2>



<p>In his post, <a href="https://sethrubenstein.info/2025/09/12/boosting-wordpress-development-with-github-copilot/"><strong>Boosting WordPress Development with GitHub Copilot</strong></a>, <strong>Seth Rubenstein</strong> explains how GitHub Copilot, an AI coding assistant, helped his team quickly build four WordPress features that would have taken months to complete manually. The AI handled tasks like creating admin panels and fixing SEO titles with minimal human oversight. However, the AI couldn&#8217;t test its own work, so Rubenstein integrated WordPress Playground, a browser-based testing environment, allowing the AI to actually browse and check the websites it builds, making the development process more reliable and efficient. Rubenstein shared all the details of how he accomplished it. </p>



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<p><strong>Matt Mullenweg</strong> <a href="https://ma.tt/2025/09/really-simple-licensing/">shared</a> on his blog, &#8220;one of the more interesting things to launch.&#8221; this week: </p>



<p><a href="https://rslstandard.org/"><strong>RSL (Really Simple Licensing)</strong></a> is an open standard that helps content publishers protect their rights in the AI era by embedding machine-readable licensing terms directly into web pages using XML markup. </p>



<p>The system supports various compensation models, including attribution-based licensing, pay-per-crawl, and pay-per-inference arrangements. Publishers can specify different terms for different usage types, particularly for AI training applications. </p>



<p>The standard addresses challenges content creators face with AI systems using their work without clear compensation or attribution by providing a structured format that automated tools can understand and respect, giving creators standardized control over their content usage. </p>



<p>The founders are <strong>Eckart Walther</strong>, who is also the co-creator of the RSS (Really Simple Syndication) standard, and <strong>Doug Leeds</strong>, former CEO of Ask.com and former CEO of IAC Publishing. </p>



<p>The RSL team has established a collective licensing organization, the <a href="https://rslcollective.org/">RSL Collective,</a> that can negotiate terms and collect royalties, similar to ASCAP for musicians or MPLC for films. </p>



<p><strong>Russell Brandom</strong> at TechCrunch has the whole story. <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2025/09/10/rss-co-creator-launches-new-protocol-for-ai-data-licensing/"><strong>RSS co-creator launches new protocol for AI data licensing. </strong></a></p>



<p><strong>James Le Page</strong>, team rep on the WordPress AI team, built a first version of a plugin for publishers using WordPress: <a href="https://github.com/Jameswlepage/rsl-wp"><strong>RSL Licensing for WordPress</strong></a>. </p>



<p>And I am left to wonder how public LLMs adhere to this standard and more interestingly, if they will pay licensing fees. Brandom wrote, &#8220;Without some kind of licensing system, AI companies could face an avalanche of copyright lawsuits that <a href="https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/anthropic-s-settlement-shows-the-u.s.-can-t-afford-ai-copyright-lawsuits" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">some worry</a> will set the industry back permanently.&#8221; </p>


<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-callout undefined not-color-set" style="border-color: #eeeeee; border-radius: 26px; border-style: solid; border-width: 0; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: left; margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; background-color: #f3efe9;">
<p><strong><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>



<p>Now also available via <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">Email me </a>with your experience</p>



<p><img alt="GitHub all releases" src="https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge" /></p>
</section>


<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>



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<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size">For questions to be answered on the <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>



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<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-group" style="padding-top: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<p>Featured Image: Photo by Cristina Gottardi on Unsplash</p>



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<p class="has-text-align-left"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>


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<hr class="wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide" />
</section>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 13 Sep 2025 12:07:50 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:17;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:15:"Matt: Legal Win";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149776";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/legal-win/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1032:"<p>Just got word that the<a href="https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69221176/169/wpengine-inc-v-automattic-inc/"> court dismissed several of WP Engine and Silver Lake’s most serious claims</a> — antitrust, monopolization, and extortion have been knocked out! These were by far the most significant and far-reaching allegations in the case and with today’s decision the case is narrowed significantly. This is a win not just for us but for all open source maintainers and contributors. Huge thanks to the folks at <a href="https://www.gibsondunn.com/">Gibson</a> and <a href="https://automattic.com/">Automattic</a> who have been working on this.</p>



<p>With respect to any remaining claims, we’re confident the facts will demonstrate that our actions were lawful and in the best interests of the WordPress community.</p>



<p>This ruling is a significant milestone, but our focus remains the same: building a free, open, and thriving WordPress ecosystem and supporting the millions of people who use it every day.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 13 Sep 2025 01:27:15 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:18;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:29:"Matt: Really Simple Licensing";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149763";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:46:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/really-simple-licensing/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:675:"<p>It&#8217;s been a busy (and tragic) week but one of the more interesting things to launch was the <a href="https://rslstandard.org/">Really Simple Licensing standard</a>. I have a lot of scars from the web standards wars, so I&#8217;m hesitant to dive back in, but this is from a lot of the early Web 2.0 people, <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2025/09/10/rss-co-creator-launches-new-protocol-for-ai-data-licensing/">as TechCrunch writes about</a>.</p>



<p>As it happens, <a href="https://github.com/Jameswlepage/rsl-wp">James LePage of Automattic has spun up a WordPress plugin for it</a>, so that was fast. Now the thing to figure out is distribution and adoption.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 12 Sep 2025 05:18:26 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:19;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Matt: Account for Externalities";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149759";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:36:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/externalities/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2454:"<p>When I studied economics, one of the concepts that struck me the most was the concept of externalities. <a href="https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/fandd/issues/Series/Back-to-Basics/Externalities">This International Monetary Fund post explains it well</a>. In short, externalities are costs or benefits of an economic activity that affect third parties who did not choose to incur them, leading to a divergence between private and social costs or benefits. They’re spillover effects—positive or negative—that the market price fails to reflect. A classic example is air pollution from a factory, where nearby residents bear health and environmental costs not included in the price of the factory’s products.</p>



<p>Open source is full of externalities. On the positive side, adoption creates ecosystems of developers and provides many paths of distribution. On the negative side, there’s often underinvestment in the very projects that sustain the ecosystem. I have a lot of empathy for why, when open source meets finance and private equity, things can go sideways. You can look at a business built on open source and see seemingly amazing margins—efficient R&amp;D that compounds in a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discounted_cash_flow">DCF model</a>. A percent here or there over many years really adds up.</p>



<p>My plea to investors in open-source businesses is this: when a business is built on top of open source, incorporate a restorative investment percentage back into the projects critical to the end-user experience of what you’re offering customers. In WordPress, we call this <a href="https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/">Five for the Future</a>, but it doesn’t have to be five percent; it could be 0.1%. Plan for it when modeling your expected <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_rate_of_return">IRR</a> hurdle from an investment. Then, a few years down the line, when the small percentages start to add up, you won’t face a big catch-up or gap.</p>



<p>This underinvestment is itself an externality. It doesn’t appear on the balance sheet, but it can manifest in black swan events, such as security breaches or remote code exploits. Technical debt is one of the largest unaccounted-for externalities in the world today. Engineering, in the long run, is primarily a craft of maintenance rather than creation. The bulk of the cost of something comes from its upkeep over time.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 12 Sep 2025 00:58:50 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:20;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Matt: PostHog";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149753";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/posthog/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1235:"<p>It&#8217;s always fun to see someone pushing the limits of the web experience, <a href="https://x.com/photomatt/status/1966026258837549485">as I reminisced about Flash and Dreamweaver the other day.</a> The new website for <a href="https://posthog.com/">Posthog</a> is a delightful rabbit hole to explore, akin to a <a href="https://meowwolf.com/">Meow Wolf</a>, with meticulous care and craft applied to every corner of the product in a way that is both fun and playful. They even have their own version of  pineapple on pizza.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149755" height="322" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-11-at-10.50.28-1024x546.png?resize=604%2C322&#038;quality=80&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>



<p>What I want to enable with <a href="https://wordpress.org/">WordPress</a> is the ability with thousands of plugins and themes for people to have unique, funky experiences like this on their website, while still providing a content structure that&#8217;s legible for interoperability and hacking. Major kudos to <a href="https://watilo.com/">Cory Watilo</a> and <a href="https://x.com/james406">James Hawkins</a> for coming up with this.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 12 Sep 2025 00:09:36 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:21;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:95:"Gutenberg Times: WordPress, AI, and the generational shift: insights from #WCUS Creators Studio";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=41824";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:102:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-ai-and-the-generational-shift-insights-from-wcus-creators-studio/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:10736:"<p>Automattic&#8217;s Developer Advocates didn&#8217;t hold back at WordCamp US. <strong>Jonathan Bossenger,</strong> <strong>Brian Coords</strong>, <strong>Birgit Pauli-Haack</strong>, and <strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> sat down for a no-BS roundtable about WordPress&#8217;s future, AI&#8217;s actual role in the CMS world, and the big question: Is WordPress still cool enough for the next generation of developers?</p>



<p>This wasn&#8217;t your typical conference panel with rehearsed talking points. The conversation dug into how WordPress is evolving right now—messy bits, growing pains, and all.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div></figure>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Is WordPress headed for &#8220;Legacy&#8221; status?</h2>



<p>The episode opened with a gut-punch question from a ChatGPT impersonation of a 25-year-old YouTuber: Is WordPress becoming a &#8220;legacy CMS,&#8221; or does it still belong at the cutting edge of web development?</p>



<p>The panelists weren&#8217;t having it. Birgit jumped straight into the modernization happening right now—Gutenberg&#8217;s evolution, sophisticated admin interfaces, and the shift toward block-based design systems. This isn&#8217;t your grandfather&#8217;s WordPress dashboard.</p>



<p>Brian kept things grounded: Sure, newer technologies like React and Vite deliver flashy front-end experiences, but guess what? Most projects eventually need a solid content management foundation. WordPress still delivers out-of-the-box content modeling, user authentication, and integrations that would take months to build from scratch elsewhere.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">No-Code dreams or developer nightmares?</h2>



<p>The conversation shifted to whether Full Site Editing and block themes actually simplify web building or just create new headaches for developers.</p>



<p>Jonathan pushed back on the &#8220;things are getting messier&#8221; narrative. His take? Structured, scalable paradigms always require an adjustment period. It&#8217;s not messier—it&#8217;s different, and that learning curve is normal.</p>



<p>Birgit shared a telling example: features like custom block styles that once required developer intervention are now accessible to content creators. It&#8217;s empowering non-developers while maintaining professional guardrails—exactly what good tooling should do.</p>



<p>Brian&#8217;s perspective? The block paradigm creates consistency. More people can build and customize using standardized approaches instead of fighting with fragmented solutions.</p>



<p>The subtext here: WordPress isn&#8217;t dumbing down. It&#8217;s getting smarter about who can participate in the building process.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Winning over the next generation</h2>



<p>A big conversation centered on how WordPress stays relevant for younger developers swimming in a sea of shiny new options. Does WordPress still feel fresh? The team didn&#8217;t dodge the question.</p>



<p>It’s true: WordPress needs to meet new developers where they actually hang out—YouTube tutorials, TikTok quick hits, and mobile-first learning. Gone are the days when developers solely learned from documentation and forums.</p>



<p>Jonathan hit a key point: WordPress must keep demonstrating its power and possibilities, not just its legacy. Brian backed this up with market reality—there&#8217;s still solid demand for both PHP and React skills within the WordPress ecosystem. The work is there if developers want it.</p>



<p>But here&#8217;s the proof point that really landed: Birgit shared CERN&#8217;s story—yes, the global research powerhouse—migrating thousands of websites to WordPress. The kicker? Younger developers on their team were leading the charge.</p>



<p>That&#8217;s not a platform declining. That&#8217;s a platform adapting and attracting fresh talent where it matters most. The question isn&#8217;t whether WordPress can compete for the next generation—it&#8217;s whether we&#8217;re telling that story loud enough.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">WordPress and Headless: the reality check</h2>



<p>Panelists were clear: WordPress has the headless chops with REST API and GraphQL support, but that doesn&#8217;t mean everyone should jump on the bandwagon. Despite the industry buzz, most sites simply don&#8217;t need headless architecture.</p>



<p>The sweet spot? Clients with significant budgets or organizations treating WordPress as a content hub that feeds multiple touchpoints—other applications, mobile experiences, or external APIs. For everyone else, traditional WordPress delivers faster launch times and simpler maintenance.</p>



<p>What&#8217;s interesting is the innovation happening on both fronts. Developers are not only exposing WordPress data through REST and GraphQL but also pulling external data sources like Airtable directly into the block editor. That&#8217;s where the real magic happens for most teams.</p>



<p>In reality, headless setups are complex beasts with multiple failure points and hefty price tags. Traditional WordPress wins the speed-to-market race and keeps maintenance headaches to a minimum.</p>



<p>The infrastructure is solid, and real projects are shipping, but headless remains the exception rather than the rule. The ecosystem continues doubling down on improving core WordPress while keeping headless as a powerful option when the benefits justify the investment.</p>



<p>The short version: headless WordPress is a tool, not a mandate. Choose wisely based on your actual needs, not the hype.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">AI integration—beyond the buzzword</h2>



<p>You knew AI would come up—it&#8217;s practically mandatory at every tech event these days. But the panel cut through the noise with some practical reality.</p>



<p>Here&#8217;s the thing: AI-powered plugins have been around for a while now. The real challenge isn&#8217;t adding more AI features—it&#8217;s creating unified standards and APIs at the Core level. Think image generation, content creation, and debugging tools that actually work together instead of operating in silos.</p>



<p>Brian nailed the infrastructure angle: WordPress needs to pick standards that balance extensibility with privacy. Not everyone wants their content shipped off to massive cloud-based LLMs, and rightfully so.</p>



<p>The smart play isn&#8217;t chasing every AI trend that pops up on Product Hunt. It&#8217;s building the foundation that lets developers integrate AI thoughtfully—whether that&#8217;s keeping processing local, giving users control over their data, or ensuring different AI tools can actually talk to each other.</p>



<p>AI in WordPress isn&#8217;t about being flashy. It&#8217;s about being useful secure and giving users real choice in how they want to leverage these tools. That&#8217;s the kind of AI integration that actually moves the needle.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Will AI replace developers?</h2>



<p>The panel didn&#8217;t dance around this one: AI makes developers more productive, not obsolete.</p>



<p>Jonathan kept it real about AI coding assistants like Copilot—they&#8217;re helpful, but they&#8217;re not magic. You still need actual developer expertise to review, modify, and debug what these tools spit out. Anyone who&#8217;s wrestled with AI-generated code knows it&#8217;s not exactly plug-and-play.</p>



<p>The bottom line? These tools change how we work, not whether we&#8217;re needed. Skilled, creative builders aren&#8217;t going anywhere.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">The future: openness, community, and better storytelling</h2>



<p>As the conversation wound down, the focus shifted to what really drives WordPress forward—community and storytelling.</p>



<p>Ryan made a solid point: WordPress professionals need to share more of their &#8220;hidden&#8221; case studies and innovations. We&#8217;re not just talking about what&#8217;s happening in plugin repositories, but the real work happening in agencies and institutions worldwide. Those stories matter.</p>



<p>Both Birgit and Jonathan pushed for more global showcases, bar camps, and informal spaces where grassroots innovation can surface. Because that&#8217;s where the real magic happens—not in conference keynotes, but in the trenches where people are solving actual problems.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">The Conclusion</h2>



<p>The panel&#8217;s take? WordPress is agile, dynamic, and very much alive. With ongoing improvements, strong community engagement, and thoughtful AI integration, the platform looks ready to keep powering the web for the next generation—and beyond.</p>



<p>Not bad for a 22-year-old platform that some people keep writing off.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity" />



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Resources: </h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4BGaP5aNuA">Video on YouTube</a></li>



<li><a href="https://react.dev/">React</a></li>



<li><a href="https://vite.dev/">Vite</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/themes/">Developer Handbook > Themes</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/block-editor/">Developer Handbook > Block Editor</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.com/blog/2025/05/07/custom-block-styles/">Mastering Custom Block Styles in WordPress: 6 Methods for Theme and Plugin Developers</a></li>



<li><a href="https://home.cern/news/announcement/computing/wordpress-now-available-cern-websites">WordPress now available for CERN websites</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/">Developer Handbook > REST API</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.wpgraphql.com/">GraphQL API for WordPress</a></li>



<li><a href="https://remotedatablocks.com/">Remote Data Blocks</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/ai/2025/07/17/ai-building-blocks/">AI Building Blocks for WordPress</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/showcase/">WordPress Showcase </a></li>
</ul>



<figure class="wp-block-image alignfull size-large"><a href="https://wordpress.org/showcase/" rel=" noreferrer noopener" target="_blank"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41854" height="357" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-11-at-14.56.48.png?resize=652%2C357&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></a><figcaption class="wp-element-caption">Browse the <strong><a href="https://wordpress.org/showcase/">WordPress Showcase</a></strong></figcaption></figure>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 11 Sep 2025 12:41:16 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:19:"Gutenberg Changelog";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:93:"Open Channels FM: The Changing Face of the WordPress Media Landscape and Its Impact on Brands";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=109490";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:100:"https://openchannels.fm/the-changing-face-of-the-wordpress-media-landscape-and-its-impact-on-brands/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:210:"In this episode, Rae Morey and Adam Weeks dissect the intricate WordPress media landscape, discussing content types, monetization strategies, and effective marketing approaches for creators and companies alike.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 11 Sep 2025 08:22:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:23;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:24:"Matt: On WP Product Talk";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149743";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/product-talk/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:476:"<p>I had a great chat with <a href="https://www.mattcromwell.com/">Matt Cromwell</a> and <a href="https://www.gravitykit.com/">Zack Katz</a> on <a href="https://wpproducttalk.com/">WP Product Talk</a> today, mostly about the intersection of AI and WordPress, give it a watch!</p>



<figure class="wp-block-embed alignwide is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

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";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:96:"WPTavern: #184 – Rachel Cherry and Alex Aspinall on the State of WordPress in Higher Education";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=199424";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:110:"https://wptavern.com/podcast/184-rachel-cherry-and-alex-aspinall-on-the-state-of-wordpress-in-higher-education";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:58321:"<details>Transcript<div>
<p>[00:00:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>



<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, the state of WordPress in higher education.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>



<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>



<p>So on the podcast today we have Rachel Cherry and Alex Aspinall.</p>



<p>Rachel is the founder of WP Campus, a nonprofit organization she launched a decade ago to support professionals using WordPress in higher education. Under her leadership, WP Campus has become a community hub, hosting conferences, and leading research projects tailored to the unique needs of its members. Currently, Rachel serves as the organization&#8217;s Director of Technology, and sits on its board of directors where she continues to drive innovative projects.</p>



<p>Alex is part of the globally distributed team at Human Made, an established WordPress Enterprise Agency founded in 2011. At Human Made, Alex helps deliver large scale web platforms for major organizations, including names like Harvard, Standard Chartered and PlayStation. In recent years, Alex has developed a strong interest in how WordPress can uniquely serve the higher education sector, and he&#8217;s become especially passionate about exploring and supporting this use case.</p>



<p>During the podcast, we get into the story behind WP Campus, which has for the past decade been empowering people who use WordPress in colleges and universities. We explore Human Made&#8217;s growing interest in the complexities of higher education projects, from large multi-site networks to the strict accessibility and governance requirements such projects increasingly require.</p>



<p>The heart of the conversation is the just released State of WordPress in Higher Education 2025 report. We dig into the reports key findings, such as the slow adoption of the block editor and full site editing, the challenges of managing hundreds of university websites with small teams, and why enterprise level tools are in such high demand.</p>



<p>Whether you&#8217;re a WordPress professional, agency, educator, or are just curious about the unique needs and opportunities the higher education space offers, this episode is for you.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>



<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Rachel Cherry and Alex Aspinall.</p>



<p>I am joined on the podcast today by two fabulous guests. I have Rachel Cherry and Alex Aspinall. Hello both. How are you doing?</p>



<p>[00:03:36] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> I&#8217;m lovely, Nathan. How are you?</p>



<p>[00:03:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Good, thank you. And Alex, you all right?</p>



<p>[00:03:40] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> How are you doing? I&#8217;m great.</p>



<p>[00:03:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you so much. So we&#8217;re going to be talking today about the higher ed space, the higher education space, and WordPress. Specifically about WP Campus. In order to establish both of your credentials in this space, I wonder if we could get a little biography from you both, maybe 30 seconds, something like that, just explaining who you are, where you work, what your connection is to WordPress and specifically WP Campus.</p>



<p>So let&#8217;s go with Rachel first, if you don&#8217;t mind.</p>



<p>[00:04:05] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> Hi, yes. So I am the founder of WP Campus, which has been around 10 years as of last month, which is kind of wild. And so we are a nonprofit organisation that supports people that use WordPress in higher education. And we host conferences, we host research projects like the one we&#8217;re going to discuss today.</p>



<p>So currently I am just one of a board of directors and I&#8217;m the director of technology specifically, but I was the lead for this project.</p>



<p>And then by day I am the accessibility developer at the University of Rochester. And so I&#8217;ve worked in higher ed and other enterprise organisations for the last 18 years.</p>



<p>[00:04:43] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you so much. That&#8217;s great. And Alex.</p>



<p>[00:04:46] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> I mean, I have way less credentials in terms of my WP Campus presence. I work for Human Made, which is an enterprise WordPress agency. We&#8217;ve been around since 2011, I think.</p>



<p>We&#8217;re a globally distributed team, people across all continents. And we specialise in building larger scale web platforms for organisations such as Harvard, Standard Chartered, PlayStation, few other names I could throw in there.</p>



<p>We also have an enterprise hosting solution too. We, probably about a year, two years ago started, well, I personally started becoming really interested in the higher education use case for WordPress. I think it&#8217;s really interesting. I think it&#8217;s quite unique. And that&#8217;s really why Rachel and I started speaking, I don&#8217;t know, maybe 18 months or so ago, and that led us to I guess this podcast.</p>



<p>[00:05:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, thank you. So the podcast is going to be framed around a freely available resource, and it&#8217;s called The State of WordPress in Higher Education. I will link in the show notes rather than try to butcher a URL in an audio podcast. I&#8217;ll link in the show notes over at WP Tavern to that and you can freely download it.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s billed as a research report in the year 2025. I confess, I don&#8217;t know if you did a 2024 version and beyond, but we&#8217;re going to concentrate on the 2025 version.</p>



<p>But I guess some more preamble, I&#8217;m afraid, but I guess we probably should establish what WP Campus is. And I just want to be clear, we recently released an episode about WP Campus Connect, and so I just want to draw a distinction there. These two things are not the same thing.</p>



<p>So I&#8217;m going to toss that one to Rachel. Will you just tell us what the endeavor is at WP Campus, why it was set up? What need is it trying to satisfy?</p>



<p>[00:06:22] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> Yeah, so about 10 years ago I was working in higher education, building WordPress websites, and I wanted my own community. And I was going to a lot of WordCamps and no one was talking about the work that I was doing, the kind of work that I was doing. There wasn&#8217;t a space for my kind of work at camps at the time and so I started this organisation.</p>



<p>And so for the last 10 years we have worked to build a community of people, of like-minded people, that are using WordPress to support the mission of higher education. And we support each other with professional development, with resources, with connection, and every now and then some advocacy. Years ago we raised funds to do the audit of Gutenberg, accessibility audit to be more specific.</p>



<p>And so because accessibility is very important in our space, and here was this editor coming round going to cause a lot of change, as it has, and there was this huge unknown of whether or not it was accessible. And that was a very big deal to our group. A lot of our group has policies and such. And so every now and then we do work like that.</p>



<p>This type of research is very important to our mission as well, to provide data, to provide insight to our community members and our institutions.</p>



<p>And I think one of our kind of ideals that we stand on is that we want to give people data to inform their own decisions, kind of like with the editor audit. Like, we didn&#8217;t tell people it was inaccessible or accessible, we gave them data so that they can decide for themselves. And so this research, you know, is a big part of that as well.</p>



<p>There&#8217;s a lot going on in our community right now. And we wanted to pull out this data, and one of our objectives was to better understand the needs and challenges of people using WordPress in higher education.</p>



<p>[00:08:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. Thank you for that, Rachel. I&#8217;m going to advise that everybody goes over to the following URL. In fact, pause the podcast right now. If you&#8217;re sitting at a computer or you&#8217;re on your phone, go to wpcampus.org and over there you&#8217;re going to be able to see more about the mission.</p>



<p>At the moment, the membership numbers are displayed on the website. Whether or not that&#8217;s true when you visit, I don&#8217;t know, but 1,763 members, 688 institutions. That is an impressive number, by the way. I mean, the membership is great, but the institutional count is utterly fabulous. That&#8217;s really impressive.</p>



<p>But the idea is to juxtapose WordPress and higher ed. We don&#8217;t really use that word in the UK too much. We just kind of generically call things, I think university, so I just want to clear that up. Does higher ed basically service the needs of anybody that&#8217;s left traditional school? So I don&#8217;t know, 18 plus who&#8217;s going through some degree program or something like that?</p>



<p>[00:08:58] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> Yes. Our mission is really to support kind of that, and I apologise, I can&#8217;t think of the general term. There&#8217;s a kind of a general term that we do use across, that&#8217;s more of a global, because higher ed is very specific to the United States in a lot of ways.</p>



<p>So we do support kind of that further education. We do have a lot of UK institutions and universities that participate in the work that we do. I would say that our group is largely United States, a lot of UK, a lot of Canadians as well. But we do have folks from all around the world. So it&#8217;s really just that spirit of wanting to support that mission of education.</p>



<p>Over the years have had a lot of people, even in the kind of K through 12 or early education people, wanting to be involved. And a lot of the things that early education and higher, or later, education have in common, but they&#8217;re also very different. So we haven&#8217;t quite merged with the early education group in that way. But yes, we do support largely this kind of university, higher education context.</p>



<p>[00:09:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, thank you. Yeah, that clears that up. I mean, you&#8217;re really busy over there. You&#8217;ve got loads of, I mean, an awful lot going on. There&#8217;s a whole thing about governance. You&#8217;ve got a newsletter, you put on real world events as well as online based events, and a Slack community. And there&#8217;s just a lot going on. It seems like, I don&#8217;t know if this has taken over your life, but it seems like it could well have done.</p>



<p>[00:10:17] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> It did for a long time, and these days I have a lot more help. For a long time I was really the only director and then a few years back we did the work to implement more of a fleshed out kind of board of directors. And so I&#8217;m just a member of that board now. I am not the director in charge.</p>



<p>[00:10:34] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, all of that, again, is freely available on the website. You can see who the current custodians of the project are.</p>



<p>So where does Human Made, Alex, where does Human Made fit into this piece of the puzzle? How, have you become involved?</p>



<p>[00:10:45] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> Yeah, I guess it goes back to what I was saying a little bit before about, I was just personally really interested in the higher ed use case of WordPress, and started digging around into learning a bit more about what kind of projects people had on the go, and what kind of platforms were being built in the space. They&#8217;re diverse, they&#8217;re complicated, they&#8217;re multi-site, you know, interesting, I guess is why I started getting involved.</p>



<p>Human Made is one of the agencies that builds complex, larger projects, so there&#8217;s a fit there as well. So we started looking around the space, seeing who it might be interesting to talk to, just in terms of learning a bit more. Obviously Rachel and WP Campus. We started talking informally about just the experience of being in WordPress in higher education.</p>



<p>I think the first thing we collaborated on over a year ago now was we did an online conference in the run up to WP Campus&#8217; IRL conference a couple of weeks later. And then after that we enjoyed working together, we thought there was a lot more material we could work on, and this research project, I suppose was the biggest idea that came out of those discussions following that.</p>



<p>[00:11:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. So I&#8217;ve downloaded the report and I&#8217;ve had a thorough look through it. There&#8217;s an awful lot in here actually. It is available, like I said, I&#8217;ll link to it in the show notes. However, I have to say, it&#8217;s a very graphical thing that we&#8217;re going to be talking about. There&#8217;s loads of charts kind of explaining the percentages in many cases of one thing versus another. So you will probably get more out of this podcast if you have downloaded it, and had a little peruse.</p>



<p>It doesn&#8217;t really matter who wants to take this, but I&#8217;m going to ask one of you to sort of explain what are some of the curious findings that you&#8217;ve got? Maybe the one, two, or three top level items that you think might be of great interest, and then we can maybe dig into the weeds of those particular things. So anything that your intuition suggests as something our audience might be interested in.</p>



<p>[00:12:32] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> I&#8217;ll start with like my key takeaways, which are very broad, and then dive into a few of the data points. But my two key takeaways that I reported on was that our higher ed teams need more resources, and a way to share more resources, and that higher education needs more enterprise features in the WordPress product. Those were kind of my two, like looking at the data, my two takeaways. And at our report presentation that we had recently, we talked about that with folks in the community.</p>



<p>But some of the really interesting questions that we asked were around usage of the block editor and full site editing. And so nothing super surprising. But let me pull up that particular chart really quick.</p>



<p>So we asked folks, how fully have you adopted the block editor and full site editing? And only 40% of the respondents are using it on all of their sites. And there was a range there. Like we asked, are you using it on all of them? Are you using it on like most of them? Alex touched on this earlier, higher ed is a very interesting space, and the thing that I, people used to hear me say frequently was that WordPress and higher ed is WordPress in the enterprise on a budget. And what that usually means is a lot of under-resourced teams having to use WordPress to solve these large scale enterprise, high user environments.</p>



<p>What comes out of that is very creative, very custom, very interesting, complex solutions. This is kind of tying back to my takeaway of people need more resources and they need ways to share them. Because something that is also interesting in our space is how much custom work there is. How much people are solving the same problems, but they&#8217;re solving them on their own, and they don&#8217;t have a way to really share them. It takes a lot of energy to like maintain a public plugin that gets used around. And so because these plugins are usually so custom that creates this whole challenge.</p>



<p>So anyway, back to the block editor. So when you&#8217;re trying to introduce new functionality in these complex enterprise environments, it can take a while. Higher ed is usually, it&#8217;s usually a pretty slow train of adoption, and there are reasons. And a big reason for that is resources. And you&#8217;re not just going to turn around and add the block editor on because you&#8217;re probably managing like 300 websites, and you can&#8217;t just change the editing experience without changing all of your training materials, and without changing your governance.</p>



<p>So yeah, so there&#8217;s context to why, and there&#8217;s lots of reasons. There&#8217;s other reasons that we don&#8217;t really dive into in these numbers, but there&#8217;s context that goes into why only 40% are actually using it on all their sites, even though Gutenberg came out in 2019.</p>



<p>[00:15:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Can I just ask you a quick question? You said something which took my breath away there. You said these people are managing probably 300 websites. I didn&#8217;t see that in the report anyway, and that seems like a really surprising number. How does that map to an institution? Is it because there&#8217;s a website for, I don&#8217;t know, the geography department, and then there&#8217;s another one for the sociology department? Is that what&#8217;s going on there? Because 300 seems like, well, I mean you could run your entire agency and not have 300 websites under your custodianship. So what&#8217;s going on there? You dropped that number and I was really surprised by it.</p>



<p>[00:16:01] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> Yes, in higher ed, there is a website for everything. And there is the notion of, if you&#8217;re familiar with domain of one&#8217;s own, which is a concept actually introduced in, or invented in, higher education in the States. And what it really means in our context is that people will set up WordPress multi-sites and then let people create their own sites on it.</p>



<p>And they&#8217;re largely blogs, like a faculty member&#8217;s blog or a research lab&#8217;s blog. But it&#8217;s a way to allow the sharing and the spreading of information and research in higher ed with kind of a low service effort.</p>



<p>So like you can log on and you have like two template choices or two theme choices, and then you&#8217;re responsible for kind of managing a site on there. And then they try to, you know, build this domain in a way that&#8217;s kind of reusable code and plugins, like you do in WordPress. So yeah, you can get a lot of sites going.</p>



<p>[00:16:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s absolutely fascinating. I hadn&#8217;t really thought about it as, well, for example, if I go to a university website here and I end up at the Department of Geography, I&#8217;m kind of thinking it&#8217;s the same website, but I imagine, you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s a whole different team of staff that are logging in and doing the geography stuff than they would be elsewhere.</p>



<p>Okay, so that&#8217;s curious. Right, back to the points that you mentioned, the resources. When you say that universities, I&#8217;m just going to use the word university, when you say that these institutions have limited resources, it kind of feels like the funding model in the US is very different to one that we have in the UK, and possibly different parts of the world.</p>



<p>And it always feels as if the US institutions probably have more money, but I&#8217;m probably thinking of things like the Ivy League universities where the fees are very high, but that probably doesn&#8217;t map all over the place.</p>



<p>So when you say resources, are you talking about cash, them being strapped for cash, or are you talking about human beings? You know, there&#8217;s not enough boots on the ground, if you like, or maybe it&#8217;s a confection of both.</p>



<p>[00:17:50] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> Probably both, but largely headcount. I mean every university or institution&#8217;s different and some might actually be more cash strapped than others. But it&#8217;s largely a headcount. It&#8217;s largely the fact that in a lot of these institutions, you&#8217;ll have a web team of like three people managing 300 websites. And what that means, how they have to kind of manage how they spend their time and what they do with it.</p>



<p>[00:18:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so it&#8217;s a bit of both. There&#8217;s less human beings than there might be in the corporate space, but also they&#8217;re probably fairly strapped for cash.</p>



<p>And then moving onto the block editor, I&#8217;ll come to you in a second, Alex, if that&#8217;s all right. But staying with Rachel for a moment. I&#8217;m looking at the chart now, 40% adoption of the block editor entirely, using them on all the websites, so point four, 40%. Then we drop down to 23% using it on some of them. 19% using on most, and then the last one really of interest here is 16% who are not using the block editor at all.</p>



<p>Has that adoption just sort of slowly ramped up, because 40% in higher ed feels like, to me, it doesn&#8217;t seem like a bad number in all honesty. I know that in the real world probably it is higher adoption than that, but I&#8217;m guessing that there are many more constraints on universities just switching out to the block editor. So is that number slowly but inexorably rising? It feels like it&#8217;s going in the right direction, but with the caveats that it has to happen slowly.</p>



<p>[00:19:11] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> We don&#8217;t have data from the last, you know, four or five years to truly answer that question. But the vibe, or the sentiment, in our space is that, yes, it&#8217;s been slowly increasing. And part of that is just people, you know, there&#8217;s lots of factors, right? There&#8217;s people waiting for maturity. They&#8217;re waiting for it to grow more before they adopt. Or because of said resource discussion, people are waiting for the next redesign, for example.</p>



<p>In our space, I think we even asked, how often do you redesign? Is one of the questions that we asked in our survey. I think it&#8217;s on average like every three years or so, three to five years, something like that. And so people in our space tend to wait for that to really implement large scale changes because it&#8217;s just easier to do it then than it is, you&#8217;re already doing a bunch of work, you might as well do it then. And so that&#8217;s another factor involved.</p>



<p>[00:20:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, there&#8217;s a little corollary to the chart that I&#8217;ve just described, underneath it, where the question was asked, how long did you wait before implementing the block editor? And basically the data skews towards, we&#8217;re trying to wait as long as possible. You know, more than two years is 35%. So it feels like, because of the nature of the audience, and I guess accessibility is a really crucial part of this, you&#8217;ve got to put the brakes on. You can&#8217;t be all that agile in the same way that maybe a corporate would, because you&#8217;ve got lots of stakeholders, lots of editorial teams that need updating and so on and so forth. So that&#8217;s kind of interesting.</p>



<p>And then I know that you didn&#8217;t mention this, Rachel, but it&#8217;s tantalizingly underneath the question that has just been mentioned. We move on to full site editing and it feels like, whoa, the brakes are really on for that. 62% of respondents said that they&#8217;re not using full site editing at all, and the numbers are kind of into low single figures where they&#8217;re describing whether or not they&#8217;re using it on all their sites.</p>



<p>So the block editor, in terms of content creation is on the rise, but it would appear that full site editing, the ability to, you know, modify themes and customise that kind of thing inside of WordPress, not so much. It feels like the breaks are really on there, probably as a result of the resources that you mentioned earlier.</p>



<p>[00:21:15] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> It&#8217;s probably following the same trajectory. Full site editing is newer and it will grow with time. But I think with full site editing, it&#8217;s very similar concerns to the block editor, but it&#8217;s more about governance and control. When you do set up these WordPress websites where you do have a lot of governance over accessibility or over branding, it&#8217;s really scary.</p>



<p>The full site editing without fully understanding what it does, and how you can control it and set boundaries, there&#8217;s that concern about governance of, we don&#8217;t actually want people using our websites to be able to customise the site. We want a lot of control over that, most of the time, not everyone, but most people. Because in our space, a lot of the users that are coming in and kind of admining their site, or editing their site, are not trained web professionals. They are biology professor who&#8217;s kind of doing job as needed.</p>



<p>And so we want them to have flexibility to go in and publish content. We want them to be able to share their research, share their information, but we don&#8217;t want them to be able to have free reign to kind of break our governance rules, and potentially create risk to our brand or to our accessibility and things like that. And so the full site editing, there&#8217;s a lot of people that are kind of hesitant and being patient for the full site editing implementation.</p>



<p>[00:22:43] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you for that. So we&#8217;ve got a picture then of how WordPress is deployed. It seems like it&#8217;s the CMS of choice over in the education, higher ed landscape anyway.</p>



<p>So moving over to Alex, I&#8217;m talking more about the implementation of this now. Presumably agencies such as yourself, Human Made, you are getting requests from these institutions to build these websites.</p>



<p>How does that process work? Do you generally tend to work with like the web team over there and you, you know, backwards and forwards with them? And then the bit that I&#8217;m most curious about, talking about what Rachel just said, how on earth do you get these people so that they can use the website that you&#8217;ve built? Because, in many institutions it may be one or two people have got their hands on this, but it sounds like there may be several hundred people who need to access the WordPress website. So training.</p>



<p>So there&#8217;s two parts to that question really. How are you interfacing in terms of building the things when you are approached by these institutions? And then how do you get to hand it off and provide a good level of support and training to them?</p>



<p>[00:23:37] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s a good question. I think the main back and forth we have would be with, typically the web team of course, as you guessed there. I think each institution is set up differently. I think Rachel probably could testify to the fact that, you know, the challenges and benefits of being set up one way is not mirrored and how it&#8217;s done elsewhere. So I do think agencies generally have to be flexible, and work within the parameters that they&#8217;re asked to, you know, that&#8217;s kind of our job.</p>



<p>I think there are also, particularly with the biggest implementations in higher ed, there&#8217;s often other agencies involved or other specialists involved as well. You might be working with someone, you know, we might be bringing design and platform expertise and you might be working with someone that&#8217;s looking after the marketing and the wider brand of the university as well.</p>



<p>So I think there&#8217;s quite a lot of collaboration indeed, like the amount of time I&#8217;ve spent within higher ed, I think collaboration is a really big theme, and I think that the successful projects that we see getting delivered are very collaborative in nature.</p>



<p>And then yeah, in terms of training and handover, I imagine on the ground in the universities in question, they have a bigger challenge than perhaps we do, because we&#8217;ll be handing it over to a smaller percentage ultimately of the wider institution. We don&#8217;t run 300 separate training sessions or anything like that. We provide detailed documentation, videos, follow up sessions, and we make sure that the team that are receiving the product are fully versed in it.</p>



<p>I think a lot of the time those people are. I think it&#8217;s handing it over to the editors that then the work will have to be done on a one-to-one basis in terms of what they&#8217;re allowed to do, going back to the FSE point. Not everyone can edit everything.</p>



<p>[00:25:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of curious because when I see a website for, again, I&#8217;m going to use the word university. When I see the website for university, I&#8217;m just seeing this kind of brochure site, really. In other words, here&#8217;s the university, look at all the magical things that we do. But my daughter has just been at university, and there&#8217;s so much more to it than that. So there&#8217;s like this portal where my daughter goes, logs in, and now the expectation is that much of the work will be carried out in that format. You know, you&#8217;ll submit content, there will be lesson plans and all of that kind of thing.</p>



<p>So essentially the question is leading me up to, what kind of things are being built into this website apart from the public facing bit, which we might call a prospectus, really? You&#8217;ve got this online prospectus, the world can see it, we can marvel at how great the university is, but it seems like there&#8217;s a heck of a lot more. Each department has its own stuff. Presumably the students, increasingly being expected to log in, especially post COVID, I imagine as well. So again, that one probably to Alex. What kind of curious things are built inside these WordPress websites, LMSs, brochure sites, and so on?</p>



<p>[00:26:10] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> Yeah, I mean, no, you listed off a lot of the options there really. I mean, the main three or four pages you might think of as being the university site are very much that, just the brochure. But there&#8217;s all kinds of different requirements for different departments. We&#8217;ll have different kinds of products that they want to build in there. You&#8217;ve got archives of hundreds and thousands of different reports and pieces of information from the past that will be needed to be upheld.</p>



<p>We rebuilt Harvard Gazette, which is, you know, obviously part of the wider infrastructure at Harvard. So that&#8217;s a massive publishing site. That&#8217;s essentially the same as any magazine or newspaper would have. It&#8217;s what it is. As you say, the student logins, all the complexities of multi-site. Rachel, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve probably got a list longer than that.</p>



<p>[00:26:53] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> It&#8217;s a lot, right? In my role as an accessibility professional, do a lot of governance work and it&#8217;s trying to tie together all these different types because there&#8217;s WordPress at my university, but there&#8217;s tons of other stuff. There&#8217;s front end brochure websites, and there&#8217;s research lab sites, and there&#8217;s marketing websites, and then there&#8217;s all the academic focused, as Alex mentioned a few. There&#8217;s a lot of web applications. There&#8217;s a lot of people doing a lot of different types of content in different ways. And how does that all tie together?</p>



<p>We talk a lot about things like data sharing and a lot of the work that we do is also just trying to keep all this content in sync and trying to not have duplicates or not have outdated content, things like that. So when we talk about governance is like a big word that means a lot of things to different people. But a lot of it is really just kind of managing quality and the expectations of how websites are managed and how our mission as an institution is kind of presented to the world.</p>



<p>So it&#8217;s interesting, Nathan, that you say, like to you, it&#8217;s like you just see this brochure site, and that&#8217;s a common conversation about kind of the challenges of enterprise. We have all this internal knowledge and we also have, you know, there&#8217;s a funny common conversation in universities about acronyms. We have all this internal terminology that we use, but does that come across to the end user? Does the work that we do translate? And it&#8217;s a complicated question to solve.</p>



<p>[00:28:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m kind of curious as to whether or not WordPress can service the needs of the entire IT department, if you like, within a higher ed institution. So I&#8217;m imagining that the legacy is that there&#8217;s many, many pieces of software that are being used throughout the university. You know, there may be some sort of portal where people log in and check in that they&#8217;re actually at work. There may be other things where people log their essays that they supply to their tutors and things like that. Plus then there&#8217;s the brochure on the front end.</p>



<p>I&#8217;m curious as to whether or not WordPress in the future can handle most of those, and whether there&#8217;s an appetite from the higher ed institutions to have everything in one platform. They may see that as, you know, maybe that presents an Achilles heel to them. If there&#8217;s one systemic failure, then the whole thing goes down. But I&#8217;m curious as to whether or not WP Campus is trying to pitch WordPress as the answer to all the things, or is it a much more limited subset of things? You know, it&#8217;s the website, and it&#8217;s the LMS and that kind of thing. So that&#8217;s more of a kind of roadmap question, whether you&#8217;re trying to push WordPress as being the answer to everything.</p>



<p>[00:29:20] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> As an organisation, we don&#8217;t really push for WordPress to be used. It&#8217;s not really our mission. That&#8217;s not how we think or how we work. It&#8217;s really more just to support people that have, that are using it, and to help each other in our roles.</p>



<p>To answer your broader question, I mean I kind of, it depends. Can WordPress be used for all these things? Sure. I&#8217;m sure you could finagle it to do a lot of things. Should it do all those things? Probably not. Not in its current state, no. It, in and of itself, is a database with programming and you can get it to do all kinds of things.</p>



<p>[00:29:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, there was one of the questions which I&#8217;ve just refound and it was, what challenges do you face with the WordPress plugin ecosystem? And bloat was one of the things that was mentioned. So yeah, this is specifically to do with WordPress plugins. It&#8217;s not WordPress Core. I thought that was kind of curious.</p>



<p>And then in second place, just by a whisker, was accessibility requirements as well. And you&#8217;ve touched on accessibility a lot, Rachel. You&#8217;ve mentioned the word tangentially, and obviously that&#8217;s your kind of area of expertise.</p>



<p>I&#8217;m guessing, but I&#8217;m not sure for certain, does the US compel certain things to be done in certain ways? You know, if you&#8217;re a university and you launch a website, does it have to comply with things? And do those things map across the globe? I know that we&#8217;ve got the European Accessibility Act, which just dropped earlier this year. So the question is pretty broad, but just tell us about the accessibility requirements and how stringent they are in higher ed as compared to just, I don&#8217;t know, if I&#8217;ve got a brochure site online selling widgets into the community.</p>



<p>[00:30:51] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> So unfortunately the US does not have as strong accessibility laws as Europe does, or many countries in Europe, like the UK and others. We do have some though, and we do have something called section 508, which basically means that if you receive federal funding or federal service, you do have to meet certain accessibility requirements.</p>



<p>And so universities in the US largely fall under that. Not always. Universities are probably the only real kind of ecosystem in the US that does have more accessibility rules than other industries like general business. And so that&#8217;s why we did that accessibility audit of Gutenberg to help support our community in that time.</p>



<p>And so it is very important, accessibility is very important. And it kind of touches on something that I said earlier about, a lot of universities in the US especially build custom plugins because they have to meet accessibility guidelines and it&#8217;s really challenging sometimes to find general use plugins available in the ecosystem that meet those guidelines. And so a lot of teams just kind of build their own stuff.</p>



<p>And so I would say that those top two challenges, when it comes to bloat and accessibility are really, like that was not surprising in any way. That is the common struggle. It&#8217;s finding plugins that meet our accessibility requirements, especially with the front end. And then having plugins that do a lot of functionality that people don&#8217;t need. And so I think a lot of these times will lend people to kind of build their own plugins.</p>



<p>They won&#8217;t rebuild like complicated plugins, any kind of administrative plugins or like form builders and things like that. Like, people largely will use plugins from the ecosystem. But there&#8217;s a lot of custom functionality in the work that we do.</p>



<p>So once again, I think the common theme is it&#8217;s complex, and because of that complexity, there&#8217;s all kinds of interesting challenges. And so plugins are hard to kind of maintain. It feels like, I hear a lot of people expressing to me, you know, how often they have to kind of update them and keep them up to date, and manage and do all that. And so it&#8217;s not enough to stop people from using WordPress, like they&#8217;re using it, but having better solutions for some of these challenges would be an example of kind of supporting these higher ed institutions using WordPress.</p>



<p>[00:33:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you. Alex, back to you. A question around just higher ed in general, is this like an area which Human Made is drilling down on? Is this an endeavor that you are trying to grow the pie, if you like? There&#8217;s thousands, I would imagine, maybe tens of thousands of institutions which come under the banner of higher ed. And at the moment, I don&#8217;t know what percentage of them are using WordPress. If we were to ask every single one of them, I would imagine it&#8217;s a significant percentage.</p>



<p>But the idea of WP Campus, I guess, is to have a central place where people can go and learn about it. And Human Made being involved, presumably there&#8217;s some advantage to you as an enterprise agency. The question basically boils down to, is this an area that you are going to be working on, pitching towards, trying to grow in the near future?</p>



<p>[00:33:55] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> Yeah, for sure. I think like I said at the start, we&#8217;re generally the kind of agency who works on larger platforms, maybe more complicated platforms. And I think we&#8217;re interested in, you know, a broad range of industries. Probably higher ed is one of four or five, probably publishing, finance, enterprise generally, entertainment, higher ed. I think those industries tend to provide very interesting use cases for WordPress. We&#8217;re interested in all of them.</p>



<p>I think we&#8217;ve seen, in the last couple of years, a lot of interesting higher ed projects being worked on by us and obviously by lots and lots of other people. And yeah, like we&#8217;re definitely part of that world, and really interested in it and, you know, yeah, definitely keen to continue being part of it, a hundred percent.</p>



<p>[00:34:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of interesting, towards the bottom of the survey, so right near the bottom, probably nine tenths of the way through, there&#8217;s a whole series of kind of roadmap questions, if you like, things about the future of WordPress. And the fairly, I don&#8217;t know, blunt question, let&#8217;s put it that way, because it could have gone in the other direction it turns out, it&#8217;s hopefully gone in the right direction, but the question was asked, would you move to another CMS if you had time and resources?</p>



<p>And gosh, that could go the wrong way. The answer was a strong 49% no. Which, when you say it like that you think, hang on, only half of the people wouldn&#8217;t move. But then you ask, then the other bit was only 23% are looking to move at all, and 28% are unknown. So really you&#8217;re up into the sort of seventies really, who either are not sure or want to stick around.</p>



<p>That seems like an amazing statistic to me. And obviously, Human Made have kind of put their flag in the ground in higher ed, WP Campus, the same. It feels like you&#8217;ve got quite a lot of runway with these institutions in the future. Unless things go horribly wrong within WordPress, it looks like you&#8217;ve got an audience long into the future.</p>



<p>[00:35:43] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> I think the report offers a really positive view of WordPress. As a technology choice, I think on the whole, most people are saying it was delivering what they needed it to. I can&#8217;t remember if it&#8217;s 70, 75%, something like that, it was said that it was either meeting or exceeding their expectations, which I think is a large number. Again, it&#8217;s not like 90, but if you think about the amount of ways you can complain about software, particularly people that know a lot about the software, I think 75% is pretty good.</p>



<p>And yeah, you&#8217;re right, whilst people are perhaps saying, oh, they&#8217;re looking around or they&#8217;re always considering alternatives, I think we&#8217;ve seen repeatedly that the platform, its security credentials, its extensibility, some of the core features, are all spoken about really, really favorably from the people that responded to the survey.</p>



<p>And I think really we saw a passionate group of people responding to a technology they know a lot about. There are a lot of ways it could improve, we all know that, and the people that completed the survey know that as well, and they&#8217;ve, you know, they weren&#8217;t shy about listing them out. But I think you&#8217;re right, overall, the level of satisfaction is good, and I think with further adoption and the adoption of newer features, I think that that satisfaction should continue to grow.</p>



<p>In fact, one of the things I was actually kind of wanting to ask Rachel actually was back to the point about FSE earlier on. I actually think WordPress needs to do a much better job of marketing itself, particularly around newer features, and particularly perhaps at the enterprise level, or where there&#8217;s complex use cases, or where a lot of the users aren&#8217;t developers. The benefits of FSE, for example, are numerous. And we&#8217;ve seen clients and indeed we&#8217;ve used it ourselves, and the people using it really like it, and I think that&#8217;s reflected in the report as well.</p>



<p>So I was going to ask Rachel, as well as the other examples of why adoption might have been slow in higher ed, do you think that there&#8217;s actually a case for people in, maybe agencies, maybe WordPress Core doing a better job of the selling and the pitching? Because I actually believe that there are worse solutions that do a better job of convincing people that they should work in a certain way.</p>



<p>[00:37:51] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> I think there&#8217;s always room for more marketing and kind of communication about what&#8217;s going on, and there&#8217;s always improvement for that. And I do feel like Core could do more towards the enterprise ecosystem as well. That, you know, I don&#8217;t know what their primary use case that they&#8217;re focusing on is. But I would be surprised to find out that enterprise is higher up on that list. And so paying attention to our community and having open conversations with them, and there has been some efforts at that. There&#8217;s not like a non amount of effort on that.</p>



<p>But yeah there&#8217;s, I think a good way to kind of describe how a lot of our community works is just kind of, it&#8217;s cautiously optimistic, but cautious. And having to manage risk and having to manage their time and energy, and so they&#8217;re not going to jump into anything. They&#8217;re going to do a lot of research. They&#8217;re going to try to find out who else is doing it, and is it working well for them?</p>



<p>So there&#8217;s a lot of, we do a lot of case studies and try to encourage our community to share about the work they&#8217;re doing. Because really that goes a long way too. If a university sees another university using full site editing and that it&#8217;s successful, then that goes a long way.</p>



<p>And when you have an absence of that, when you have an absence of examples, then it&#8217;s a struggle, right? Because our environment is so complex that an article about full site editing and what it can do doesn&#8217;t really go super far. We need to understand, not just what it does, but the long-term implications. Because once we implement it, that&#8217;s it. It&#8217;s very hard to back up, especially in our, these 300 website multi-site instances where we&#8217;ve got to train people and do all these things. We can&#8217;t rush into it.</p>



<p>So there&#8217;s a lot of cautious waiting and seeing. So the more that universities can share about how they&#8217;re using the tools and how it&#8217;s working for them, and what&#8217;s not working for them. Being genuine in the reality of what we&#8217;re doing goes a long way. So there&#8217;s pros and cons, like, here&#8217;s how it worked, here&#8217;s the roadblocks we hit, here&#8217;s how it could be better. Having those kinds of conversations can really go a long way towards adoption.</p>



<p>[00:39:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I have a few things to add to this, and the first one would be that my expectation when a survey is put out is, broadly speaking, the expectation is that negativity is going to be the thing driving them to the survey. And that&#8217;s not what you find here. People who&#8217;ve got an axe to grind are frequently more likely to open up a survey and grind the axe, and that isn&#8217;t the case here.</p>



<p>You know, it&#8217;s remarkably sanguine. Everybody seems entirely optimistic. And even the data which may be not quite as favorable, is not unfavorable. It&#8217;s just maybe not as shiny as it could have been.</p>



<p>But then I&#8217;m looking at the second question here about what the favorite things are and it&#8217;s all the stuff that we lean into all the time. The extensibility, the fact that it&#8217;s free, otherwise known as cost, the fact that it&#8217;s multi-site capable, the fact that there&#8217;s plugins and what have you that you can extend it with.</p>



<p>And the editing experience, so we&#8217;re talking about full site editing, I guess there as well as the editor, is low on the list of priorities, which is quite interesting. Only 36% of respondents thought that that was their priority.</p>



<p>And then talking to the broader, I don&#8217;t know, the marketing piece, I think WordPress as a whole, it is really difficult to market something to the entire world. And that&#8217;s what WordPress is. So for the, like the Core community and things like that, to try and figure out where to put their best efforts, you know, how to convince people that WordPress is the solution for them, is really difficult, because it&#8217;s everybody. It&#8217;s literally anybody who might want a website.</p>



<p>And so I think that&#8217;s where endeavors like WP Campus really pull out all the stops. You know, you are out there shouting loudly that this is the credible solution, if you&#8217;ve got a need for a website in the higher ed space. You are making it so that, I guess if we were to Google higher ed CMS, WordPress is going to come up fairly high. So you are growing that pie.</p>



<p>But I guess the audience is fairly small, isn&#8217;t it? You know, at each institution, how many people are going to be making those searches? It&#8217;s not going to be the 300 people that you mentioned. It&#8217;s probably going to be the web team.</p>



<p>So I think you&#8217;re doing great work. You know, you&#8217;re definitely finding those people and the important decision makers are probably the people. that you need to find.</p>



<p>I keep coming back to the phrase, growing the pie. That&#8217;s what I think WP Campus is basically about. You know, of the 10,000 institutions out there that might use WordPress, it&#8217;s about making sure that a growing proportion of them know that it&#8217;s a credible alternative to whatever they&#8217;re using now. And from the numbers in the survey, it looks like once you&#8217;ve onboarded them, it&#8217;s easy to keep hold of them, which is pretty cool.</p>



<p>[00:42:21] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> For WP Campus as an organisation, we wanted to use the survey to really surface the needs. And so there&#8217;s questions in this survey that talk about what plugin needs exist.</p>



<p>You know, one of my takeaways from this survey is how WordPress does need more enterprise functionality. And that&#8217;s covered a lot in the questions about plugin functionality. There is a big need and a gap for a lot of enterprise functionality in the WordPress ecosystem and higher ed needs it. So if there are people out there wanting to build it, we are ready for it.</p>



<p>And so, you know, I want to surface those needs to kind of help bring more resources to our community and to what they&#8217;re doing. And so anyone out there looking to help fill that gap, please check out the survey and I&#8217;m open to have a conversation at any time, and we&#8217;d love for you to join our Slack and ask us questions and get us involved.</p>



<p>[00:43:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, that&#8217;s an interesting call to action because you know, if you&#8217;ve got space in your calendar to build a new thing, you now have a brand new audience potentially, if you&#8217;ve not considered the higher education space, there&#8217;s a ton of data in this report which you can download. So maybe this is a whole new audience that you didn&#8217;t realise that you could tap into. Alex, was there anything, it sounded like you had something.</p>



<p>[00:43:33] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> Yeah, no, I was just going to echo really to what Rachel was saying there. I think the idea with this report was to, as Rachel said earlier on, provide data that has been missing. There&#8217;s no cynical play, it&#8217;s a collaborative report that&#8217;s designed to help other people understand how their peers are working, what their challenges are, how they&#8217;re trying to solve them, what kind of environment they&#8217;re doing it all in.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s a really fascinating area, as I said earlier on, and we are really excited to see it develop and help it develop. And, yeah, we will be certainly collaborating with WP Campus and Rachel going forward.</p>



<p>[00:44:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, so whether or not, it really doesn&#8217;t matter which bit of WordPress you are attached to, whether you&#8217;re a hosting company or a plugin or a theme developer or an agency, just building out websites, there really is a bit of this which will map to whatever it is that you are doing.</p>



<p>The website URL I mentioned earlier, wpcampus.org is where you&#8217;re going to find this out. I presume that they&#8217;re somewhere, if I was to explore, I would probably find a contact form. But beyond that, let&#8217;s go to Rachel first, how could people reach out to you if they&#8217;re curious about what you&#8217;ve said to today? Where would they best find you?</p>



<p>[00:44:36] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> Yeah, so you can join our Slack, which is accessible from wpcampus.org. There is a Slack page and you fill out a form and you get an invite, and feel free to join and start some conversations. There is a contact form on wpcampus.org, and I do receive those emails along with other people in our organisation. So that&#8217;s another great way to get in touch with me as well.</p>



<p>[00:44:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you. And Alex, same question.</p>



<p>[00:45:01] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> Yeah, for us, obviously website, humanmade.com. There&#8217;s a contact form on there. But also Twitter and LinkedIn tend to be our main sort of points of contact for people getting in touch with us.</p>



<p>Might also be worth flagging out, we&#8217;ve got a Word on the Future newsletter, which goes out once a month. You can sign up for that on the website. That generally has this kind of content, not always about higher education, but about the enterprise WordPress space in general. So that&#8217;s quite a nice touch point too.</p>



<p>[00:45:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;ll just mention before we finish off that the WP Campus site not only links to, you know, the bits and pieces that are going on right now, but there&#8217;s the blog and there&#8217;s also links to the events as well as the Slack channel and things like that, oh, and a newsletter. There&#8217;s a whole load of opportunities to keep in touch with what&#8217;s going on over there.</p>



<p>So, yeah, what I would also say is it&#8217;s very hard in an audio podcast to do justice to a report, which is primarily graphics. So please, if you&#8217;ve any curiosity around what we&#8217;ve been talking about, go and download that and you&#8217;ll be able to get the full detail of what we&#8217;ve been talking about. You&#8217;re going to find that on the Human Made website, and I will link to it in the show notes.</p>



<p>Okay, Rachel Cherry, Alex Aspinall, thank you so much for chatting to me today. Really appreciate it.</p>



<p>[00:46:05] <strong>Alex Aspinall:</strong> Thanks for having us.</p>



<p>[00:46:06] <strong>Rachel Cherry:</strong> Yes, thank you.</p>
</div></details>



<p>On the podcast today we have <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelmcherry/">Rachel Cherry</a> and <a href="https://humanmade.com/who-we-are/alexaspinall/">Alex Aspinall</a>.</p>



<p>Rachel is the founder of <a href="https://wpcampus.org/">WP Campus</a>, a nonprofit organization she launched a decade ago to support professionals using WordPress in higher education. Under her leadership, WP Campus has become a community hub, hosting conferences and leading research projects tailored to the unique needs of its members. Currently, Rachel serves as the organization&#8217;s Director of Technology and sits on its board of directors, where she continues to drive innovative projects.</p>



<p>Alex Aspinall is part of the globally distributed team at Human Made, an established enterprise WordPress agency founded in 2011. At Human Made, Alex helps deliver large-scale web platforms for major organizations, including names like Harvard, Standard Chartered, and PlayStation. In recent years, Alex has developed a strong interest in how WordPress can uniquely serve the higher education sector, and he’s become especially passionate about exploring and supporting this use case.</p>



<p>During the podcast we get into the story behind WP Campus, which has, for the past decade, been empowering people who use WordPress in colleges and universities. We explore Human Made’s growing interest in the complexities of higher education projects, from large multisite networks to the strict accessibility and governance requirements such projects increasingly require.</p>



<p>The heart of the conversation is the just released ‘State of WordPress in Higher Education 2025’ report. We dig into the reports key findings such as the slow adoption of the block editor and full site editing, the challenges of managing hundreds of university websites with small web teams, and why enterprise-level tools are in such high demand.</p>



<p>Whether you’re a WordPress professional, agency, educator, or are just curious about the unique needs and opportunities the higher education space offers, this episode is for you.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Useful links</h2>



<p><a href="https://wpcampus.org/">WP Campus</a></p>



<p> <a href="https://humanmade.com/resources/the-state-of-wordpress-in-higher-education-research-report/">The State of WordPress in Higher Education</a> report</p>



<p><a href="https://humanmade.com/">Human Made</a></p>



<p><a href="https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/">Harvard Gazette</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wpcampus.org/community-3/slack/">WP Campus Slack</a></p>



<p><a href="https://humanmade.com/word-on-the-future-a-wordpress-newsletter-by-human-made/"> Word on the Future newsletter</a></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 10 Sep 2025 14:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Nathan Wrigley";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:85:"Open Channels FM: Sustainability, Authenticity, and Building Habits with Daily Videos";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=109487";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:90:"https://openchannels.fm/sustainability-authenticity-and-building-habits-with-daily-videos/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:208:"In this "Publishing Flow" episode, Mark Szymanski shares insights on his daily video journey, discussing inspiration, consistency, audience engagement, and the balance between authenticity and value creation.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 10 Sep 2025 11:04:26 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:17:"Matt: Techmeme 20";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149734";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:34:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/techmeme-20/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:616:"<p>It&#8217;s New Apple Stuff day, so the headlines are being dominated by that, but it&#8217;s worth taking a step back and paying homage to the site that has been the front page of tech news for two decades now, <a href="https://techmeme.com/">Techmeme</a>. I&#8217;ve been a daily visitor since it started, and I appreciate how they pair the algorithm with a light human touch to provide a wide overview. (WordPress-powered!) <a href="https://crazystupidtech.com/2025/09/08/at-20-techmeme-has-never-been-hotter/">Fred Vogelstein at Crazy Stupid Tech has a great review of how Techmeme started and evolved</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 09 Sep 2025 20:24:31 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:79:"Open Channels FM: Lessons From Building and Managing Multiple WordPress Plugins";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=108988";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:86:"https://openchannels.fm/lessons-from-building-and-managing-multiple-wordpress-plugins/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:188:"Here are some lessons learned in building a WordPress plugin business, emphasizing experimentation, market understanding, customer support, and community engagement for sustainable growth.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 09 Sep 2025 09:53:25 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:109:"Open Channels FM: The Founders of Podcaster Plus Share Product Development Experiences and Community Insights";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=108599";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:116:"https://openchannels.fm/the-founders-of-podcaster-plus-share-product-development-experiences-and-community-insights/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:215:"In this WP Behind the Builds episode, Mark Westguard discusses the upcoming Podcaster Plus plugin with founders Nathan and Dan, emphasizing its features like customizable audio players and automation for podcasters.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 09 Sep 2025 08:16:19 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:20:"Matt: Assorted Links";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149725";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/links/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1682:"<p>A few interesting reads or listens:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://www.wired.com/story/multiple-chemical-sensitivity-tilt-claudia-miller/">The Next Thing You Smell Could Ruin Your Life</a>, a deep dive into chemical sensitivity and toxicant-induced loss of tolerance, or TILT, by <a href="https://lexipandell.com/">Lexi Pandell</a> (WordPress!) at Wired.</li>



<li><a href="https://www.newyorker.com/culture/infinite-scroll/irl-brain-rot-and-the-lure-of-the-labubu">IRL Brain Rot and the Lure of the Labubu</a>, by <a href="https://www.kylechayka.com/">Kyle Chayka</a> at New Yorker.</li>



<li><a href="https://simonwillison.net/2025/Aug/9/bay-area-ai/">Simon Willison&#8217;s Lethal Trifecta talk</a>, on the myriad security issues that arise when combining LLMs, prompt injection, MCPs, and more.</li>



<li><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Daniel Stenberg, a lead developer of the open source utility Curl, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n2eDcRjSsk" target="_blank">talks at FrOSCon about how AI reports are gumming up their security workflows</a>.</span> (YouTube, 53 minutes.) </li>



<li><a href="https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2025/08/15/car-brands-running-curl/">Daniel again (on his WordPress-powered blog) discusses a version of their maker/taker problem</a>, specifically the 47 car brands that use Curl but none that sponsor it.</li>



<li>Fernando Borretti&#8217;s <a href="https://borretti.me/article/notes-on-managing-adhd">Notes on Managing ADHD</a>.</li>



<li>Good Taste Is More Important Than Ever, by <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/author/nitin-nohria/">Nitin Nohria</a> in The Atlantic.<br /></li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 08 Sep 2025 23:20:52 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:17:"Matt: Maker Taker";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149704";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:34:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/maker-taker/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2543:"<p>My sister <a href="https://charleen.blog/">Charleen</a> sent me this meme with the note &#8220;Someone needs to draw you in there with your arm up <img alt="🤣" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f923.png" style="height: 1em;" /><img alt="🤣" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f923.png" style="height: 1em;" /><img alt="🤣" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f923.png" style="height: 1em;" />&#8221; It&#8217;s a nice ode to the <a href="https://dri.es/solving-the-maker-taker-problem">Dries essay on Maker/Taker problems</a>.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149705" height="509" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/IMG_3812.jpeg?resize=604%2C509&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>



<p>Well, thanks to the magic of AI, I asked the <a href="https://aistudio.google.com/">Nano Banana AI Studio</a> to &#8220;make it so on the bottom one person raises their hand,&#8221; and it didn&#8217;t work at first. So, I tried a few other variations, and then, voilà!</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-149706" height="500" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/09/Generated-Image-September-06-2025-7_32PM-1024x848.jpeg?resize=604%2C500&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1" width="604" /></figure>



<p>Technology is amazing. And now we have a counter to the meme. Be that one hand that raises.</p>



<p>Although this is a joke, I&#8217;m going to give humanity a high-five because, compared to when I started in technology, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents">which was more the Microsoft Halloween memo era, to where we are today</a>, I&#8217;m <strong>so impressed</strong> that so many makers, creators, designers, engineers, and leaders have adopted the moral framework of open source being part of their calling. Businesses, too! I used to get laughed out of the room or had spears thrown at the security of open source, but that is no longer a blocker, and the conversation has really elevated. It doesn&#8217;t feel like one person raising their hand anymore; it&#8217;s grown into a truly special movement, a lens through which you can view almost anything.</p>



<p>Open source is the best way we have to set the foundation for future generations to build upon, ensuring the light cone of humanity&#8217;s technological expansion becomes something that belongs to all of us, not just a few.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sun, 07 Sep 2025 19:08:56 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:19:"Matt: Breaking Ribs";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149695";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:36:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/breaking-ribs/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1959:"<p><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><a href="https://chrisyoungcooks.com/" target="_blank">Chris Young</a>, who is otherwise famous for being a <a href="https://modernistcuisine.com/books/modernist-cuisine/" target="_blank">co-author of the 2,438-page cookbook Modernist Cuisine</a> or <a href="https://www.youtube.com/shorts/s8OcZYCBaOo" target="_blank">centrifuging steaks and drinking them</a>, is one of the friends who, over the years, has told me I have to watch <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_Bad" target="_blank">Breaking Bad</a>, the TV show.</span> When I was in Marrakech for a few weeks earlier this year, and it was a million degrees outside, I cracked and started watching, and I see why people say it&#8217;s one of the best shows ever. I&#8217;m only up to S2E4, and I see why everyone loves it, including that it is sometimes unintentionally hilarious,  but I had to stop because it was getting a bit too dark and bumming me out before I went to bed.</p>



<p>However, I&#8217;m glad I made it through that season and a half of Breaking Bad, because it has given me the ability to appreciate this homage Chris has done, attempting to use science and chemistry to cook ribs in an apartment oven just as well as you could with a smoker. If you live at the intersection of Breaking Bad, BBQ, science, chemistry, and cooking, this is the video for you. And now, this makes me want to order some <a href="https://thepitroombbq.com/">Pit Room</a> in Houston. (WordPress-powered!)</p>



<figure class="wp-block-embed alignwide is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div></figure>



<p>And if you haven&#8217;t yet, you should <a href="https://combustion.inc/">buy one of Chris&#8217; Combustion Predictive Thermometers</a> (<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DNKJ8FQB/?tag=photomatt08-20">here on Amazon</a>). </p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:33:34 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:127:"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog 120—WordCamp US, Automattic Telex, Gutenberg 21.4 and 21.5, and the need for more blocks";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:53:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=41792";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:101:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-120-wordcamp-us-telex-gutenberg-21-4-and-21-5/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48635:"<p>Birgit Pauli-Haack and Sarah Norris discussed WordCamp US, Automattic Telex, Gutenberg 21.4 and 21.5, and the need for more blocks.</p>



<p>This episode dives into the ongoing evolution of Gutenberg, from AI-driven tools for easier block creation to the expansion of core blocks and enhancements stemming from vibrant community input. There’s a strong focus on practical improvements for developers and better experiences for end users, all while staying plugged into the latest WordCamp happenings and the broader future of site editing in WordPress. </p>



<p><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-120-wordcamp-us-telex-gutenberg-21-4-and-21-5/#shownotes">Show Notes</a> / <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-120-wordcamp-us-telex-gutenberg-21-4-and-21-5/#transcript">Transcript</a></p>



<p></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Editor: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/">Sandy Reed</a></li>



<li>Logo: <a href="https://markuraine.com/">Mark Uraine</a></li>



<li>Production: <a href="https://icodeforapurpose.com">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>
</ul>



<p class="has-larger-font-size" id="shownotes"><strong>Show Notes</strong></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Special Guest: <strong>Sarah Norris</strong></h2>



<p>JavaScript Developer / Core team rep</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikachan/">WordPress Profile @mikachan</a></li>



<li><a href="https://sekai.co.uk/">Personal website: sekai.co.uk</a></li>



<li><a href="https://twitter.com/mikachan_">Twitter: @mikachan_</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">WordCamp US </h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://telex.automattic.ai/projects/new">Automattic Telex </a>build block from plain-english prompts</li>



<li>Adam Silverstein’s talk, <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/unlock-developer-superpowers-with-ai/">Unlock Developer Superpowers with AI</a></li>



<li>John Maeda’s talk,<a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/cozy-ai-cooking-wordcamp-edition/"> Cozy AI Cooking: WordCamp Edition</a></li>



<li>Prof. Adam Gazzaley’s talk, <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/a-new-era-of-experiential-medicine-ai-and-the-brain/">A New Era of Experiential Medicine—AI and the Brain</a></li>



<li>Michelle Hunt’s <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/building-experiences-design-systems-user-experience-and-full-site-editing/">Building Experiences: Design Systems, User Experience, and Full Site Editing</a></li>



<li>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner’s talk, <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/moving-a-website-from-classic-to-a-block-theme/">Moving a Website from Classic to a Block Theme</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/block-composability-the-past-and-the-future/">Block Composability: The Past and The Future</a> with Seth Rubenstein and Max Schmeling. </li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/event/wordcamp-us-2025/">Full list of talks is available on WordPress TV here.</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">WordPress Developer Blog</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/08/whats-new-for-developers-august-2025/">What’s new for developers? (August 2025)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/07/you-dont-need-theme-json-for-block-theme-styles/">You don’t need theme.json for block theme styles</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/08/registering-custom-social-icons-in-wordpress-6-9/">Registering custom social icons in WordPress 6.9</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/08/refactoring-the-multi-block-plugin-build-smarter-register-cleaner-scale-easier/">Refactoring the Multi-Block Plugin: Build Smarter, Register Cleaner, Scale Easier</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/09/implementing-namespaces-and-coding-standards-in-wordpress-plugin-development/">Implementing Namespaces and Coding Standards in WordPress Plugin Development</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/subscribe/">Subscribe to the blog</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Gutenberg releases and work in progress</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/08/14/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-4-13-august/">What’s new in Gutenberg 21.4? (13 August)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-5/">What’s new in Gutenberg 21.5? (27 August)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/71026">New Block additions for the Block Library</a></li>



<li><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/why-wordpress-core-needs-more-blocks/">Why WordPress Core needs more blocks</a><br /></li>
</ul>



<p class="has-large-font-size">Stay in Touch</p>



<div class="wp-block-group"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow">
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Did you like this episode? <a href="https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>



<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href="https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href="https://twitter.com/bph">@bph</a>.</li>



<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>



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</ul>
</div></div>



<p class="has-large-font-size" id="transcript"><strong>Transcript</strong></p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Hello, and welcome to our 120th episode of the Gutenberg Changelog Podcast. In today&#8217;s episode we will talk about WordCamp US, Telex, Gutenberg 21.4 and 5 and also we will discuss that we need more blocks. Maybe. I&#8217;m your host Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and WordPress developer advocate and full-time core contributor for the WordPress open source project sponsored by Automattic. </p>



<p>And after a long break, Sarah Norris joins me again. Yay. She is a co-core team rep, a core contributor to the Goodwill Project, and developer and designer working for Automattic. Thank you so much for taking the time and coming onto the show again. Sarah, how are you today? And maybe you can briefly outline what you have been working on for what might be coming to WordPress 6.9.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, sure. Yeah. Hello. It has been a really long time. It&#8217;s good to be back. Yeah, I&#8217;m good. I&#8217;m looking forward to autumn, my favorite time of year. So for 6.9 I&#8217;ve mostly been working on new blocks. Yes, all the new blocks. I&#8217;ve been working on the Accordion block, which was called Accordions but is now called Accordion Singular. Also I&#8217;ve been looking over the new tabs block. There&#8217;s a PR going for that that I&#8217;m really interested in, looking at maybe getting the table of contents block stabilized as well. I think there&#8217;s a lot of work to do there, but I think it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s quite well rounded, well outlined so we can get stuck in there. And then I&#8217;ve also been working on a new terms query block as well. So that&#8217;s it&#8217;s like the query loop block but for taxonomies.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Wow, it sounds exciting. Awesome. Awesome. So you&#8217;re the right person to talk about. We need more blocks later on so we&#8217;re coming to the announcements. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Announcements</h3>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Automattic Telex</h3>



<p>So at his keynote at WordCamp US, Matt Mullenweg, you probably heard it all already, dear listeners announced experimental AI tool called Telex, and it can be used to build new blocks with a plain English language prompt so you don&#8217;t have to speak code. So try it out. I&#8217;ll share the links in the show notes. And Ray Mori from the repository has quite done a good rundown of all the reactions for Telex on Twitter and all that. So I&#8217;m going to share this with you. But it&#8217;s a really exciting tool and it&#8217;s also experimental, so it might not have the outcome that you want, but you might get new ideas from it. So have you tried it out, Sarah?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yes. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I&#8217;ve been following the development closely and trying it out. It&#8217;s amazing. It&#8217;s so much fun to use. Yeah. Definitely recommend people try it out. You might not get what you expect, but I don&#8217;t know if you ever do with AI, it&#8217;s all about what you put into it, isn&#8217;t it? And see what you get. Especially for new blocks. People should try it to build new blocks.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>So did you build a new block?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I built a few ideas, like a few silly things. I haven&#8217;t tried it on any new core blocks yet. Maybe that&#8217;s the. The next step. Maybe I should try it on all these new core blocks we&#8217;ve got coming up.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Well, but I&#8217;m more interested in the silly things than the crazy things or in the quirky things. But did you try?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>What did I try? I&#8217;ve tried like some random image generators, just like some random color stuff as well. Trying like different colors, different patterns.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Maybe I should add some to the new live tool so we can get them in the library.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>There&#8217;s a library maybe coming up. Okay, well, it&#8217;s the next current step. Yeah. Kind of thinking about, okay, if so many people build blocks and we want to kind of showcase all those ideas, if they&#8217;re ready enough so other people can use them, then you probably want to have a site for that. That&#8217;s totally true. Yeah, true. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">WordCamp US</h3>



<p>Anyway, so speaking of WordCamp viewers, the talks are almost all uploaded to WordPress TV, so the team is really amazing. And there were fantastic talks at the showcase day as well as the other days. And we had about a dozen talks about AI in all kinds of flavors. And I only want to kind of point out three of them. One was for developers. Adam Silverstein’s talk Unlock Developer Superpowers with AI is definitely worth a look on the rerun as he tested quite a few new tools and also gave a great rundown on his approach and how he works with it. </p>



<p>So Adam is a former Googler and he is a core committer on the WordPress project. So yeah, he&#8217;s definitely out there ahead of, well, at least me. I don&#8217;t know about Sarah, but definitely ahead of me, so. And for nondevelopers, John Maeda’s talk was a fantastic introduction in how to think about AI in his cozy AI cooking talk as a keynote on the third day. And then if you want to be amazed of what&#8217;s happening in other areas outside of development, but in other areas of science, I highly recommend Professor Adam Gazzaley’s talk on the new era of experimental medicine, AI and the brain. And he talks about how his lab at the University of San Francisco did a lot of brain testing and figured out a way to replicate and have a feedback loop, a close feedback loop to reactions on certain things. So and what they actually did was they created a video game to help people with ADHD. And that&#8217;s for prescription, but also available for adults who are kind of having a bit of a cognitive decline in the later years and want to kind of keep a stop to that or at least delay it. So it&#8217;s really an interesting talk. Totally not related to WordPress at all. So yeah, have you watched any of those talks?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I haven&#8217;t this week. I&#8217;ve been concentrating on basically building the terms query block. But all three of these I really want to watch. They sound really good, especially that last one that sounds super interesting.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, yeah, the resources that he mentions in his slide deck and all that, you can really kind of go down that rabbit hole on a Sunday afternoon and kind of learn more about that. And then for block and block related talks, there were so many and each covering a different angle. I have a list in my Weekend Edition 38 that I would kind of where I said I would want to watch it and even if I&#8217;m not getting into the talk, I will keep a list of that for the reruns. But if I wanted also three of them is one is Michelle Hunt’s Building Experiences, Design systems, User experience and full site editing. And she really brings it home in talking about Atomic Design, which was a topic two years ago in San Diego or three years ago even, and then applying it to WordPress and themes and blocks and also creating a design system as well as guardrails for users. That&#8217;s her user experience piece that if you have too many options you confuse users and they don&#8217;t need them, but you can build guardrails around it and curate the experience quite well. </p>



<p>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner is from a small agency and she talked about how she moved websites from classic theme to a block theme and what the steps were involved. And yeah, some decision making process there, really good. And then Block Composability the Past and the Future with Seth Rubenstein and Max Schmeling, and they talked about the remote data block coming out of WordPress VIP and they open sourced it, and that is how you can connect the Gutenberg editor with an outside data source like Google Spreadsheets or Airtable and bring that data in live. So when it changed the data on the other sites. Yeah, it&#8217;s updated the website and use block bindings and interactivity API to pull it all into a page and blocks that you can put on a page. So it&#8217;s really interesting what comes out of that this year in WordCamp US. So have you looked at the remote data block yet?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>No, I haven&#8217;t, but that sounds amazing. It almost sounds like zapier but. But for. For the editor. Yeah, that sounds really cool.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, that was the idea about it, that you don&#8217;t have to create blocks for that. You kind of use that one block. Yeah, that has a lot of tools in there and then you can pull them in. It&#8217;s really interesting. So yeah, but of course everyone is at a different stage in their blocks journey, and it&#8217;s difficult to recommend a talk without knowing more about the needs but so I will share in the notes the link to all the talks of WordCamp US. I think right now they have two or three pages already uploaded so you can kind of look at them but don&#8217;t forget it and let times go past. It might also be something to put on your list for Christmas vacation days or Thanksgiving days instead of other things maybe. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Community Contributions</h3>



<p>So what&#8217;s community contributions? It seems there&#8217;s more new Momentum at the WordPress Developer Blog because apart from the What&#8217;s New for Developers by Justin Tadlock, there were four more articles published since we had our last Gutenberg Changelog recording, and two of them are by Justin Tadlock. </p>



<p>One is a little controversial as a stated title, you don&#8217;t need Theme JSON for block theme styles. When you want to need or step away from using theme JSON for styling themes, this guide will walk you through the best practices of using style sheets instead. You will also learn from the article that Justin actually really likes theme JSON, but he wants to pick you up where you are and if you don&#8217;t don&#8217;t have a real good handle on it yet, you have alternatives and options. And the second one is in view of what&#8217;s coming to WordPress 6.9 is registering custom social icons for Gutenberg, and it&#8217;s a new filter hook that&#8217;s coming to the next release, and it&#8217;s learn how to use it to register your own services for social icons block. So his example is IMDb, that&#8217;s the movie database or Ko Fi, that&#8217;s buy me some coffee kind of donation place. I used it for my next edition of the Gutenberg Times theme where I want to have an archive page for my podcast, and I needed the icons for all the podcast directories where you can find the Gutenberg Changelog because only Spotify was on there, and there are so many others that are there, so. And Pocket Cast is already in there, but all the others are not. So I built them with that new tool for my new plugin. So it&#8217;s really interesting. So if you have other needs, you can do it yourself. You don&#8217;t need to wait for Core to put them in. </p>



<p>And Troy Chaplin also he published a series on refactoring a multiblock plugin to build smarter register cleaner and scale easier. So if you have a multi block plugin, it&#8217;s kind of gives it a cleaner structure, support all block types and also a smarter registration and bundling of your assets. I think it&#8217;s a very good tutorial for the next stage of your plugins. And he also has a second post in the same realm is about implementing namespaces and coding standards in WordPress plugin development. This post got a lot of comments and suggestions from other people, co-developers and others. So it&#8217;s definitely worth looking into because namespacing, auto loading and linting for your multi block plugin is definitely something you want to find out or how to do this. So shout out for both authors for taking the time to put those tutorials together for other WordPress developers. And dear listeners, make sure you never miss another post of the developer block again. Subscribe to the blog. Anyway, I&#8217;m not asking you, I&#8217;m not putting on the spot when you&#8217;re gonna write for the developer blog. But yeah, think about it. We&#8217;re open to ideas.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I&#8217;ll have a think.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Say again?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> I&#8217;ll have a think.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">What’s Released &#8211; Gutenberg 21.4</h3>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, have a think. So, which brings us dear listeners to the Gutenberg releases in the last four weeks. We are starting with Gutenberg 21.4. Do you want to get us started, Sarah?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. What we&#8217;ve got first for 21.4. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Enhancements</h3>



<p>So in enhancements we&#8217;ve got a new server side render hook.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. And I&#8217;ve put some question marks on it because I need you to explain it to me a bit.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I mean, I&#8217;m not sure I can do that. So I think this is a. It&#8217;s a really nice refactoring job. So we had. Well, we still do have some data fetching logic in a server side render function and this has been refactored into a hook called useserverside Render, and it basically gives consumers more control over the block content when they&#8217;re using the server side rendering technique. I think we did have this functionality before, but this makes it much easier and more flexible for consumers to absorb the block content.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>All right, so when you say consumers, you mean extenders who use it in their block plugin, right?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yes, yeah, that&#8217;s right.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. It&#8217;s not me as a consumer of Nutella or something.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Nutella Hook though, would be amazing.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>That&#8217;s a new blog.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Use Nutella.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Use the Teleservice. No. Oh, what a mess. So we have quite a few things that are concerning the data views. It gets a real good polish now and some great features in there. So the first thing is that there is a control command plus click for multiselection in the table layout. When you have data views in a table. So you can click all the rows that you want to use for bulk edits or something like that, which is really cool. It&#8217;s also a feature that is in the old WP admin. The second one is the data form select box to have custom empty options. This is actually really cool because then you have a no selection and it doesn&#8217;t disrupt anything of the workflow. Yeah, I got this all my life of web development and forms that when you have a dropdown you need an empty one. So if it&#8217;s not a required field. So they can unselect things.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, Very easily forgotten because how often do you actually build dropdowns as well? So every time you build one it&#8217;s good. Oh yeah, I need an empty option.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. It&#8217;s now built in to have a custom empty option if you want it. You want to do the next.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah. What&#8217;s the next one? So I&#8217;ve got support group by in the table layout. So this, this is adding support for the table to be grouped by field, isn&#8217;t it? So it means that when you&#8217;re viewing a table, it can be grouped into separate sections and each section will have a heading. Yeah. But I guess depending on the content, it makes it much easier to consume that content and then. Yeah, each section has a table row with a heading. Yeah, that helps separate it out. Nice and neat.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, it makes it a little bit easier to find all the stuff that you need. The next one is that it&#8217;s now use responsive images for the dataview grid layout. So if you&#8217;re on a tablet, the images are smaller so you get more things on the screen as well as the mobile. You can use that in mobile as well.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, yeah. I didn&#8217;t know about this PR actually. It&#8217;s very, very cool because it&#8217;s. It allows you to to pass a maximum width to the images in the grid view. Because I think previously it was using the largest image or one of the largest image sizes. But that means like if there were a lot of images, this is saving like literal megabytes on every grid view. So that&#8217;s. It&#8217;s really, really cool. Good, Good pr. Good performance. PP.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Next one is allow data views empty state to be customized. Oh yeah. So this is if. So if you&#8217;re like loading a data views component, if there were no results previously, I think it just would render just a white screen basically, which is an empty data view component. But this allows you to pass in like a default empty state. So if you&#8217;re listing pages and no pages are part of the search results, then you can add something like a no pages found message. But it&#8217;ll be styled nicely and be centered and will look much better UX than a blank screen, basically.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Then nothing.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, yeah, then nothing.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. And I also like the. The last one is a data form is now a bootstrap validation for required and type checks on the input. And that&#8217;s right now for text input, email, integer and boolean field types. Boolean. Yeah, I never knows how to pronounce it. How do you pronounce it?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Boolean.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Boolean. Boolean. Boolean. Yeah. Other people say boolean. Anyway. Yeah, I really like that. So now you can have your data forms automatically kind of validated and at least for those types I think more is coming there as well. So yeah, if you use the data views for your plugins, you can actually have now good user input handling as well.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Next is the block library section and then we have the cover video block Add drag and drop support for poster uploads. So this is so for videos you can add a poster image for HTML videos. And this basically just allows drag and drop functionality. So we can drag these images into the poster section when you&#8217;re editing the cover video block basically makes it much easier to add a poster.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, yeah. Drag and drop is always fun most of the time. Yeah. And it&#8217;s not only for the video block, but it&#8217;s also for the cover block that has that video that&#8217;s also then pulled in. If there is not enough bandwidth on the page to show a poster instead of the video, and only when you click on it, the video kind of plays. And then we have updates to the file block. Two of them. One is to use the mime type to determine if a file is a PDF and the other one is have the nature of Feature detection for PDF support. So that would also give the PDF support means have it embedded on the page as an option or also have thumbnails and all that kind of thing. So yeah, those are kind of great enhancements.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Next up is the block editor section. So we have the list add keyboard shortcuts to indent, outdate, outdent. So this adds a keyboard shortcut to the tooltips. Why can&#8217;t I say tooltips? All these words that you don&#8217;t have to say out loud. And then you&#8217;re forcing me to say. When you hover over the block toolbar for the list block, you&#8217;ll now get some helpful tool tips that tell you about the indent and tab keyboard shortcuts. Basically.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, yeah, it&#8217;s been a while that it actually is the tab to indent on the list block. But it wasn&#8217;t really that widely known because it took a while to get it in there and now you can. On a single list item you can use the tab to indent it. But now you also know it by hovering over the tooltips or getting some tooltips. When you hover over the block toolbar, there is the icon to indent and outdent. And now it also has the tooltip for use the tab dummy kind of thing. All right. Oh, the write mode is also has quite some updates in the last few Gutenberg releases. This one also only has one that it adds the shuffle style to the write mode toolbar on a container block. So if you have a block, if there is a style variations for that particular block, you can you get this little color drop to select those style variations that is actually coming out of the zoom out mode that was already in 6.8.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, it&#8217;s very cool.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>It&#8217;s totally cool.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, it makes it really easy to. I know that&#8217;s the whole point of it, but it makes it very easy to switch between the styles. I think it&#8217;s something that we don&#8217;t really think about, especially when you&#8217;re building for the editor as well. But as soon as you see it in action, it&#8217;s just like, oh, this is unlocks loads of functionality just in one click. It&#8217;s very cool.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Next up is the component section. Got one in here as well. So this is the text control improve theming support. I think this is a little PR for making the border and placeholder colors themable for the text control component specifically. So it means that if you switch the theme, the border and the placeholder colors will also change as well as the other colors related to text control.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. And then there&#8217;s a block binding update on the date block. It now allows block binding, so yay. Now you can have the date block. There&#8217;s a date block or post date, for instance. Yeah, you can. Yeah, okay.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Exactly.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, you can. Or recording date. Yeah, or something like that. You can connect it to a block binding and make it all follow all the date things in WordPress like location and localized formatting and all that. Block bindings also gets a little bit more wider usage. Opens up for wider usage during 6.9. I have not yet put a whole good research in there, but I&#8217;ve done some testing and it works really, really well also to. To add it to an audio block and all that.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I can tell you one thing, although it will probably be for Gutenberg changelog 21.6 or 121, but I&#8217;ve been using block bindings. I&#8217;ve been using block bindings for the terms query block as well. And it was unbelievably easy to implement. Just like so much kudos to the people who&#8217;ve been working on block bindings. So I&#8217;ve used it to expose term data so we can absorb that in the new blocks for the terms. And it&#8217;s just. I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;m just blown away by it really. It just makes so much sense. Makes everything so much more flexible.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, I use the block bindings too. I registered a separate source for the block bindings for my podcast archive page. Yeah. Because I wanted recording date and stuff, the podcast description and the logo as well as for every episode recording date and the download link just in there in the query loop. And it really worked. Yeah. The audio blog. I&#8217;m still debugging it because of course it&#8217;s all my fault. But it really works well and I&#8217;m so happy that I don&#8217;t have to write new blocks. And I can use a plugin that creates all those fields and has their own template, but the templates are not for block themes. So I can create my own template and add all those blocks bindings and put it into a plugin. So it&#8217;s really cool.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So many more options opening up with block bindings.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah. What&#8217;s our next section now?</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Documentation</h3>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>So I scroll down to the documentation section of the changelog and I just wanted to point out two things. One is that the Playground CLI is now preferred over the WP now when you use it on any of your projects for playground to have a local development. So it&#8217;s really cool if you&#8217;re developing a plugin, but not in the realm of a website, just on a separate folder. And then you can do playground CLI and then it opens up a WordPress instance right from that and knows it&#8217;s coming from a plugin. So it puts all the stuff from right in there into the playground. It installs it and activates it. And really fast development. Now that was previous was WP now and now it&#8217;s the Playground CLI and it&#8217;s documented. And the second one was the document guidelines on how to get new social icons into Core and have the link to the developer blog article by Justin Tadlock on how to do it yourself. What else? I think that I have the feeling we are now at the end of Gutenberg 21.4.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em></p>



<p>Yes, success.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>And we are coming to Gutenberg 21.5. Do you want to start again?</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Gutenberg 21.5</h3>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yes, I can do. Yeah. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Enhancements</h3>



<p>Starting at enhancements again. So first up is Data Form. Panel layout can open as dropdown or modal. So I think this is adding the. The modal panel type to the data form. And yeah, it basically means that a panel can be opened as a modal, making the data form more flexible.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes, indeed. Yeah. And then the data views also get an additional enhancement as the option is now added to allow Infinite Scroll. On Data Views, you can decide between pagination or infinite scroll like we have in the media library. There&#8217;s an Infinite Scroll Infinite scroll kind of way. So yeah, it kind of opens up a lot more possibilities for Core or plugin developers to use that.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Next up is the block library section. First up is the query title, adding a post type label variation. So this adds a post type label to the query title block, which displays the singular name of the query post type.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. So you know, when you look at it, oh, this is a recipe or this is a post or this is a page. When it kind of comes into the query loop, that&#8217;s definitely helpful, kind of prevents confusion. Definitely, yeah. And then of course we come to your accordion block.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yes.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Is it still experimental or has it been removed? Experimental.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>It&#8217;s still experimental at the moment. So it&#8217;s only just been merged. Yeah. So we&#8217;re still testing. So the best thing about blocks being experimental is that we can make breaking changes, essentially. So I think it will be experimental until hopefully not the last minute. But, you know, the last minute being the last few weeks, probably before 6.9. But I think I&#8217;m feeling really confident about the block in general. So hopefully just after a few rounds of testing, maybe some tweaks being made. There&#8217;s already been a bunch of. A bunch of PRs opened for some small tweaks as well, which is really nice to see. So, yeah, hopefully it&#8217;ll be. It&#8217;ll be stabilized by 6.9. That&#8217;d be great.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. Yeah, I hope, I hope so very much though. Yeah. So the accordion block is. It&#8217;s implementing the HTML standard kind of way and then how it kind of works with blocks and you have a whole panel and then you have additional accordion. You have an accordions. It&#8217;s not a accordions block, but it&#8217;s a whole accordion. And then the accordion items, and then you have inner blocks that can house any content in the accordion item panels, right?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, that&#8217;s right. I think that&#8217;s where I got stuck as well, because I was like, this is multiple accordions. No, it&#8217;s one accordion and then the accordion is made up of multiple sections. Yeah. And then we have to have accordion content and then the accordion header and accordion panel. And within the panel you can add. I think it&#8217;s. I think it&#8217;s all blocks. I should know, shouldn&#8217;t I? But yeah, you can add any, any content within that panel. It just makes it a little bit more flexible than the details block. But I know that the accordion and the details block are very, very similar also at the moment. I think the details block will be surfaced if you search for accordion as well in the block editor. My plan, in my head at the moment, I probably need to write this down somewhere, is that once the accordion block, the new block is stabilized, then we could remove that accordion keyword from the details block. So both of those are two very obvious distinct blocks. </p>



<p>Hopefully reduce some confusion. I think the main issue is with the details uses a summary element and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s semantically correct to add headings, but maybe a bunch of other stuff as well. Basically you can only really technically add text content, which doesn&#8217;t make it very flexible. And then the accordion block will have, at the moment only has an option for one type of icon. But the idea is that we&#8217;re going to add a lot more customization to the icon and making the header content itself more flexible. So yeah, hopefully this accordion block is much more flexible and just it&#8217;s kind of like an advanced block compared to the details. And I think, I think they can both exist fine. They&#8217;re both, they&#8217;re both HTML paradigms. They can both exist as blocks as well. And you know, more blocks. We need more blocks.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>More blocks, yes, definitely. Yeah, yeah. There were also some you you weren&#8217;t able in the details block, you were also not able to. To style the summary separately from the details. So if you put a border around you, it almost was on the same on the whole thing and not on the single. On the details. Yeah, or if you want to have a text styling on the summary, it also would bleed through the details. So yeah, but that&#8217;s wanted I think the details and summary that comes also from Markdown which so you could use it on GitHub and all that and there it really can have additional styling. So the accordion block is definitely for much richer styling and designs available. So are you thinking about handling transforms from details to accordions?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I haven&#8217;t thought of that yet, but that makes perfect sense because I imagine. Well, this is only a guess, but I imagine some people have. Users have been using the details block for probably what they would have wanted to use an accordion block for like if they wanted additional styling or for like more advanced FAQ sections and stuff like that. So yes, I imagine that will be a want transforming from a details block to the accordion. So yeah, I&#8217;ll add it to the list.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Write it down. All right, the next one is again it&#8217;s on the component section and there are a few in there. But I just wanted to point out the forms component that it also now supports an async validation. It means that you can also do server side validation and supports that with a. It&#8217;s a breaking change for this. It&#8217;s a private component so we shouldn&#8217;t even talk about that. Okay, so I didn&#8217;t see that but it&#8217;s. Yeah, it has an async story. So you can have an async validation. Yes, maybe sooner or later we get the public, but yeah, we&#8217;ll see.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>For themes, there is additional support for providing the border radius presets. So yeah, if you&#8217;re familiar with other presets that you can have in theme JSON for styling, this is one for Border Radius allows you to set border radius presets and then they&#8217;re available in the different controls and it also uses the spacing sizes is like a modal for the way the presets use as well.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, if you are a themer, you definitely want to control the border radius and have users use just the certain numbers for it. Yeah, so if you use a smaller one then it&#8217;s always 15, and it&#8217;s not one is 12 and the other one is 17 or something like that. And then if you want a bigger radius for 25 or something like you don&#8217;t want to kind of that users put in all above 20, so to speak. So you have. You have a more consistent design on your site. And even if you kind of let the users use Border Radius for certain things for designing the next one is. Well, I think. Well, just want to say that the presets for Border Radius is definitely a big thing for theme developers. Yeah, I really get that. </p>



<p>The next one is actually a really big thing for anybody who uses WordPress because the command palette comes to the admin dashboard. So you can actually be anywhere in your WordPress admin and then say open Site editor or add page or open style book or something like that. So you don&#8217;t have to find the menu. Click 15 times through the menu to find that particular piece there. Or say add CSS. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s a command yet, but it definitely should be. So it&#8217;s a much easier way. And a lot of people might actually appreciate that they can do shortcuts pretty much to get to wherever they need to do. For the power users, it&#8217;s definitely an improvement. And I also can see there is. In the roadmap, there was also. That&#8217;s actually part of the roadmap that the command palette is available for the admin dashboard. But it&#8217;s also a foundational piece to get also AI using some of the commands and also to add. To have plugin use add commands to it that are not connected to the site editor. So plugin developers actually can streamline their processes as well for their users. Yeah, it&#8217;s nice. Yeah, it&#8217;s cool. Yeah. And I think now we have. Yeah, there&#8217;s a media for you. Do you want to go.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I can do for the block library, the median text block. So this is retain use featured image hook value during transformations. So I think this is a bug fix that fixes the media and text transformations to and from a cover block. Basically ensures that the use featured image value is retained during the transformation, which is very important. Don&#8217;t want to be resetting.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: It&#8217;s very important. And kind of adds. Removes an additional step people have to think about. So I already did this. Why do I have to do it again?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, exactly.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>After they migrated. We are at the end of Gutenberg 21.5. Yes, we did it, Sarah. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">What’s in Active Development or Discussed</h3>



<p>Now we have one section left in our podcast that&#8217;s the what&#8217;s in active development or discussed. And as I said in the intro we need more blocks. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">More Blocks</h3>



<p>Matias Ventura, lead architect of Gutenberg and the whole revamping of the admin design, he posted an issue called New Blocks Editions for the Block Library. And there&#8217;s a lot of discussions that we would need there if we need them or not need them. But he comes from a point where he says, okay, for theme to have a good create a good experience for their users, it would be helpful to have these kinds of blocks or some, some of them or all of them in there. So there is no doubt that when a theme styles a block or uses it in patterns or in template parts or something like that, that it&#8217;s not going to be there. And that&#8217;s the experience now that if users use some other block, a theme that assumes there are blocks in there, they get a very confusing message there that so and so block wasn&#8217;t installed if they want to install it or something like that. And I think that&#8217;s for any new user of the WordPress could work inside editor are not very helpful. And so there are some suggested blocks there. Amongst them, the icons block, the playlist block, the slider, slider or carousel block, a stretchy text block, tabs block, accordion block. We have that Mega menus, math ML block, marquee block, table of content, time to read breadcrumbs and dialogue block. That&#8217;s kind of the list. I think it can go on and on and on, but I think it&#8217;s a good list there. I felt I&#8217;m a little bit okay, the marquee block. Didn&#8217;t we outphase that in the, in the 90s already? But I think it comes in handy when you have a news sticker across the top or something like that. MathML I think it&#8217;s a good block for educational sites, especially in math education. So I don&#8217;t know if that needs to be in the core or it can still be a plugin. Actually, Adam Silverstein created a plugin with the MathML block or the breadcrumbs block. Definitely important because that&#8217;s so important that we can help people find their way back. So a lot of people chime in. Aaron Jorban, Mike McAllister, Jeff Paul, Rich Tabor, Joe Dalston, Hendrik Larsen, Jeff Chandler yeah, a lot of people kind of join me in.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, it&#8217;s great to see.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> What do you think?</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> It&#8217;s great to see so much interaction and conversation about new blocks. I think generally most people think that we should have more blocks, but I think the contention comes down to per block and which one should be added. And I think that&#8217;s fine. I think that it&#8217;s fine to have a discussion per block about that. But at the moment I think the lack of blocks just limits the flexibility and design opportunities in the editor. So that&#8217;s where maybe the decision process is a little bit easier for things like the accordion block, because it&#8217;s such an obvious design choice and option to have. Similar to the tabs block, probably the carousel block icons. But then there&#8217;s others like you mentioned about MathML maybe would have less users, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it shouldn&#8217;t be in core. It&#8217;s probably just a longer conversation or maybe it doesn&#8217;t make it into core. I&#8217;m not sure how I feel about the marquee block because I think it&#8217;d be really fun to have a marquee block. But I also understand that maybe, you know, not. Not everyone would want to use it. So maybe it doesn&#8217;t warrant going in. But then it&#8217;s fun, isn&#8217;t it?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>So, yeah, there&#8217;s fun.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>I don&#8217;t know.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>I have also seen that there&#8217;s a developers and user usability. People don&#8217;t like sliders and carousels.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Right.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>But users or site owners like them very much. Yeah, exactly. So I talked with a few and at WordCamp US I talked with a few agency owners, said, yeah, that&#8217;s one of the blocks that we built ourselves because we need it on every single project that we are doing. Yeah. I can&#8217;t keep them kind of say, okay, there are alternatives when they want it. You know, our customers want them and so we build them.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And they&#8217;re pretty good to. They&#8217;re pretty navigational things, so interactive things. So if the site has no activity at all, this is actually getting you back.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, exactly. And so many of these blocks listed in this issue that Matias opened, so many of them already have so much work. They already have a PR or. And they&#8217;ve probably just stalled the same question of how do we do this? Why should we do this? Do we need this block? So I think it&#8217;s just a case of going through each block and having that conversation. Because the accordion block, I only picked it up and finished it. Jeff had done. Already done so much good work on that and that&#8217;s why it was able to be landed so quickly and yeah. In a similar position with many of the others. So, yeah, I&#8217;m looking forward to that.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. I think the table of contents has received quite a few iterations.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And just a few pieces missing that would make it a little bit more a little easier to handle, but we all kind of found our ways around it. But for that, we always have to install Gutenbergs to have the blocks there. And not everyone wants to use Gutenberg in production. Yeah, still. </p>



<p>All right. Okay. So we are coming to the end of our Gutenberg Changelog podcast. As always, the show notes will be published on GutenbergTimes.com podcast and if you have questions, suggestions, or news that you want us to include, send them to <a href="http://changelogutenbergtimes.com">changelogutenbergtimes.com</a> that&#8217;s <a href="http://changelogutenburgtimes.com">changelogutenburgtimes.com</a> Thank you so much, Sarah, for being here, and thank you to all the listeners for listening. And if you want to review our podcast on several of those directories, like on Apple or on Spotify, please do, as it helps other people to discover it. So thank you for listening, and goodbye and see you at the next one.</p>



<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Bye.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Bye.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 06 Sep 2025 12:03:49 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:19:"Gutenberg Changelog";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:98:"Gutenberg Times: Accordion Block, Automattic Telex, Playground CLI and more—Weekend Edition #339";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=41640";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:104:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/accordion-block-automattic-telex-playground-cli-and-more-weekend-edition-339/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30809:"<p>Hi,</p>



<p>WordCamp US was a blast, although a four-day WordCamp felt weird. And after day four I was exhausted. I am almost done dealing with jet lag coming back from the nine-hour time difference. Interestingly enough, I saw way more talks than at previous WordCamps and I enjoyed learning new things. I also caught up with many long-time WordPress friends, most of whom I haven&#8217;t seen since the pandemic. My heart is full. <img alt="💕" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f495.png" style="height: 1em;" /> </p>



<p>More on WordCamp US below.</p>



<p>I also caught up on a lot of stuff from the rest of the WordPress world, so this weekend edition is really packed.</p>



<p>Wishing you a fantastic weekend. </p>



<p>Yours, <img alt="💕" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f495.png" style="height: 1em;" /><br /><em>Birgit</em></p>




<div class="wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block" width="100%"></div>


<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="wordcamp-us-2025">WordCamp US 2025</h2>



<p>For this week, I just link some recaps post and collect the WordPress TV links of the talks. More to come over the next weeks or so. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="recap-posts">Recap posts</h3>



<p>There are already quite a few recap posts about WordPress US published. Here is a selection:</p>



<p><strong>Brett McSherry</strong> published a recap: <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2025/08/portland-welcomes-wcus-2025/"><strong>Portland Welcomes WordCamp US 2025: A Community Gathering</strong></a></p>



<p>So did <strong>Rae Morey</strong> at The Repository <a href="https://www.therepository.email/wordcamp-us-2025-wraps-in-portland-ai-demos-student-programs-and-whats-next-for-wordpress" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank"><strong>WordCamp US 2025 Wraps in Portland: AI Demos, Student Programs, and What’s Next for WordPress</strong></a></p>



<p><strong>Andy Fragen</strong> shared his photo album: <a href="https://thefragens.com/wcus-2025-in-pictures/"><strong>WCUS 2025 in Pictures.</strong></a></p>



<p>Communications Lead at DreamHost, <strong>Annette Irwin</strong>, reported extensively from each day in Portland, OR:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://www.dreamhost.com/news/announcements/inside-wordcamp-us-2025-contributor-day/">Inside WordCamp US 2025 Contributor Day</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.dreamhost.com/news/announcements/wordcamp-us-2025-showcase-day-where-wordpress-comes-to-life/">WordCamp US 2025: Showcase Day — Where WordPress Comes to Life</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.dreamhost.com/news/announcements/wordcamp-us-2025-day-3-recap-innovation-energy-and-community/">WordCamp US 2025: Day 3 Recap— Innovation, Energy, and Community</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.dreamhost.com/news/announcements/wordcamp-us-2025-day-4-ai-insights-and-a-fond-farewell/">WordCamp US 2025 Day 4: AI Insights and a Fond Farewell</a></li>
</ul>



<p><a href="https://wordpress.com/blog/2025/09/05/wordcamp-us-2025-recap/"><strong>The 5 Best Things About WordCamp US 2025</strong></a> by Tess Needham, WordPress.com</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="recordings">Recordings </h3>



<p>The WordCamp US Livestream recordings are <a href="https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1pJFUVKQ7ERiUTP1Mt_yhRDOzESEoodI">available on YouTube</a>. The AV team is in the process of <a href="https://wordpress.tv/event/wordcamp-us-2025/">uploading single talks to WordPressTV</a></p>



<p>Here is the list of talks I shared in <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordcamp-us-more-blocks-a-new-book-gutenberg-21-4-and-wordpress-6-9-weekend-edition-338/">Weekend Edition 338</a>, now with the links to the recordings on WordPress TV</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Joeleen Kennedy</strong>: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/modernizing-at-scale-how-fse-supports-wikimedias-evolving-ux/">Modernizing at Scale: How FSE Supports Wikimedia’s Evolving UX</a></li>



<li><strong>Josh Bryant</strong>: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/reimagining-wordpress-editing-how-we-embedded-gutenberg-into-our-product-ecosystem/">Reimagining WordPress Editing: How We Embedded Gutenberg Into Our Product Ecosystem</a></li>



<li><strong>Seth Rubenstein</strong>: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/block-composability-the-past-and-the-future/">Block Composability: The Past and The Future</a></li>



<li><strong>Stephanie Stelzer</strong>: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/coding-the-magic-a-developers-journey-through-aloha/">Coding the Magic: A Developer’s Journey Through Aloha</a></li>



<li><strong>Mary Ann Aschenbrenner</strong>: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/moving-a-website-from-classic-to-a-block-theme/">Moving a Website from Classic to a Block Theme</a></li>



<li><strong>Anton Plauch</strong>e: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/building-resilient-interfaces-by-embracing-fluid-design/">Building Resilient Interfaces by Embracing Fluid Design</a></li>



<li><strong>Jemima Abu</strong>: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/a-php-developers-guide-to-reactjs/">A PHP Developer’s Guide to ReactJS</a></li>



<li><strong>Michelle Schlup Hunt</strong>: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/building-experiences-design-systems-user-experience-and-full-site-editing/">Building Experiences: Design Systems, User Experience, and Full Site Editing</a></li>



<li><strong>Tammie Lister</strong>: <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/the-system-is-the-strategy/">The System is the Strategy</a><br /></li>
</ul>



<p>AI was a big topic at WCUS 2025 with about a dozen talks from various angles. My recommendations are: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>For developers, check out <strong>Adam Silverstein</strong>’s talk, <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/unlock-developer-superpowers-with-ai/">Unlock Developer Superpowers with AI,</a> as he has tested quite a few tools and can give a great rundown about his approach. </li>



<li>For non-developers, if you need an introduction on how to think about AI, watch <strong>John Maeda</strong>’s talk <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/cozy-ai-cooking-wordcamp-edition/">Cozy AI Cooking: WordCamp Edition</a></li>



<li>If you want to be amazed by what’s happening in other areas of science, I highly recommend <strong>Prof. Adam Gazzaley</strong>&#8216;s talk, <a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/03/a-new-era-of-experiential-medicine-ai-and-the-brain/">A New Era of Experiential Medicine – AI and the Brain</a> </li>
</ul>



<p>The <a href="https://wordpress.tv/event/wordcamp-us-2025/">full list of talks is available on WordPress TV here.</a></p>



<p>The recordings of the workshops are not yet available. I&#8217;ll share them in a future Weekend Edition. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="major-wordpress-events-in-2026">Major WordPress events in 2026 </h2>



<p>2026 is still many months away, but you can&#8217;t plan soon enough. Save the dates! </p>



<figure class="wp-block-table is-style-stripes"><table class="has-fixed-layout"><thead><tr><th>Dates</th><th>Name of the Event</th><th>Location</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><td>January 23-24, 2026</td><td><a href="https://nepal.wordcamp.org/2026/">WordCamp Nepal</a></td><td>Butwal, Nepal</td></tr><tr><td>April 8-11, 2026</td><td><a href="https://pressconf.events/">PressConf</a></td><td>Phoenix, Arizona, USA</td></tr><tr><td>April 9–11, 2026</td><td><a href="https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/">WordCamp Asia </a></td><td>Mumbai, India </td></tr><tr><td>April 23-24, 2026</td><td><a href="https://checkoutsummit.com/">Checkout Summit</a></td><td>Palermo, Italy</td></tr><tr><td>June 4-6, 2026</td><td><a href="https://europe.wordcamp.org/2026/">WordCamp Europe</a></td><td>Krakow, Poland</td></tr><tr><td>August 16-19, 2026</td><td>WordCamp US</td><td>Phoenix, Arizona, USA</td></tr></tbody></table></figure>



<p>Many more WordCamps are in the early stages. You can check out the <a href="https://central.wordcamp.org/schedule/">schedule on WordCamp.org</a> and also review the WordCamps planned for the rest of 2025. </p>



<p>For the remainder of 2025, I just booked my flight to Gdansk to attend <a href="https://gdynia.wordcamp.org/2025/"><strong>WordCamp Gdynia</strong></a>, September 26 &#8211; 28, the first bilingual WordCamp in Poland. And I am contemplating attending <a href="https://pisa.wordcamp.org/2025/"><strong>WordCamp Pisa</strong></a> in November.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>



<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> and I joined <strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong> on the <strong><a href="https://wpbuilds.com/2025/09/04/435-at-the-core-with-birgit-pauli-haack-and-anne-mccarthy-episode-4/">4th episode of the &#8220;At the Core&#8221; podcast</a></strong> series of WPBuilds. We talked about the Admins design and AI building blocks, the Roadmap for 6.9, the command line for WPAdmin, and Speculative loading. It was a fun, fast-paced conversation.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><a href="https://wpbuilds.com/2025/09/04/435-at-the-core-with-birgit-pauli-haack-and-anne-mccarthy-episode-4/"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41742" height="343" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/WP-Builds-Podcast-Episode-435.webp?resize=652%2C343&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></a></figure>



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<p><strong>Aki Hamano</strong> released Gutenberg 21.5 and highlighted in his post <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-5/">What’s new in Gutenberg 21.5? (27 August)</a> </p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-5/#introducing-accordion-block">Introducing Accordion block</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-5/#command-palette-in-admin-dashboard">Command Palette in admin dashboard</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-21-5/#support-border-radius-presets">Support border radius presets</a></li>
</ol>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41725" height="368" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/accordion-block.png?resize=652%2C368&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p><img alt="🎙" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f399.png" style="height: 1em;" /> The latest episode is <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-120-wordcamp-us-telex-gutenberg-21-4-and-21-5/">Gutenberg Changelog 120—WordCamp US, Automattic Telex, Gutenberg 21.4 and 21.5, and the need for more blocks</a> with special guest <strong>Sarah Norris. </strong></p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full is-style-no-vertical-margin"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41771" height="207" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-05-at-14.12.23-edited.png?resize=652%2C207&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<p class="has-small-font-size"><em>If you are listening via Spotify, please leave a comment. If you listen via other podcast apps, please leave a review. It&#8217;ll help with the distribution.</em></p>
</div></div>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>



<p>In her post on the WooCommerce Developer Blog, <strong>Stephanie Pi</strong> walks you through the <a href="https://developer.woocommerce.com/2025/09/01/woocommerce-10-2-pre-release-updates/"><strong>updates coming to WooCommerce 10.2</strong></a>. Get ready for the Product Collection Carousel and Bloc, simplified templates, a faster Cart Block, improved taxonomy filters, and so much more. Beta 2 is scheduled for September 8th, and the final release drops on September 16th, 2025.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="Product Carousel coming to WooCommerce 10.2 on September 16, 2025" class="wp-image-41746" height="317" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-04-at-16.13.10.png?resize=652%2C317&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Wes Theron</strong> explains in this video <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO-bn9jwarQ"><strong>how to work with WordPress templates</strong></a>. You&#8217;ll learn the difference between pages and templates in WordPress and how templates control the layout and structure of your pages—including headers, footers, and content—without affecting the content itself. Theron explored how editing templates impacts all pages using them, and showed practical examples using the Pages Template, Single Posts Template, All Archives Template, 404 Template, and your homepage.</p>


<div class="wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block" width="100%">
<figure class="wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div></figure>
</div>


<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Ajit Bohra</strong>, Lubus, <a href="https://x.com/ajitbohra/status/1962503463046365553">announced</a> that their open-source <strong><a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/blablablocks-tabs-block/">Tabs Block</a></strong> is now available in the WordPress repository. Users can create horizontal or vertical tabs directly inside the WordPress Block Editor. Documentation can be found <a href="https://github.com/lubusIN/blablablocks-tabs-block/wiki">on GitHub Wiki</a></p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="Tabs Block screenshot by Lubus.in" class="wp-image-41722" height="343" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Tabs-Block-LubusIN.png?resize=652%2C343&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



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<p><strong>Kevin Batdorf </strong>published the <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/fit-to-width/"><strong>Fit To Width block</strong></a> in the WordPress repository. The block is used for displaying each line of text at full width, no matter the length of the text.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="screenshot of an example of the Fit-to-Width block by Kevin Batdorf" class="wp-image-41729" height="458" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/screenshot-1.jpg?resize=652%2C458&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



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<p><strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> released v4.3.0v of his <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-query-loop/"><strong>Advanced Query Loop block</strong></a> in the WordPress repository. The update introduces a new post exclusion tool, a completely overhauled Post Meta Queries UI, and a new option for Meta Type.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>



<p><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> posted his take on the overall question: <strong><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/why-wordpress-core-needs-more-blocks/">Why WordPress Core needs more blocks</a>.</strong> He used to support keeping WordPress lean, but block themes changed everything. Now theme builders have way fewer tools compared to before—you can&#8217;t just include breadcrumbs, accordions, or icons without finding specific blocks for them. When users don&#8217;t have the right blocks installed, they get ugly error messages. He wants WordPress to include more core blocks like tabs, icons, and accordions so theme creators can actually build what they envision without hitting brick walls. What do you think? <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/why-wordpress-core-needs-more-blocks/#comments">Leave a comment</a> on Tadlock&#8217;s post or on the GitHub issue: <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/71026">New Block additions for the Block Library</a>.</p>



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<p>In January, <a href="https://wordpress.tv/speakers/arun-r-shenoy/"><strong>Arun R Shenoy</strong></a> held a talk at WordCamp Kolhapur with the title <strong><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2025/08/19/crafting-attractive-block-themes-using-the-block-editor-alone/">Crafting Attractive Block Themes Using the Block Editor Alone</a></strong>. The recording is now online on WordPressTV. Shenoy explored &#8220;minimalist design and the capabilities of the Block Editor. No coding or complex tools—just the editor and your creative vision.&#8221; He explained the basics for those who haven&#8217;t used the Site Editor yet and want to learn more. The <a href="https://kolhapur.wordcamp.org/2025/files/2024/12/WordCamp-Kolhapur-2025-Arun-R-Shenoy.pdf">slidedeck</a> is also available online.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="Screenshot of Arun Shenoy's Talk at WordCamp Kolhapur" class="wp-image-41734" height="361" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-04-at-14.02.52.png?resize=652%2C361&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>


<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-callout undefined not-color-set" style="border-color: #f9f9e5; border-radius: 22px; border-style: solid; border-width: 0; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: left; margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; background-color: #f9f9e5;">
<p><strong> <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2025&#8221;</a> </strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/">2020</a> | <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/">2021</a></strong> | <strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/">2022</a></strong></strong> | <strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023">2023</a></strong> | <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2024/"><strong>2024</strong></a></p>
</section>


<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor</h2>



<p>The head of engineering at The Code Company, <strong><a href="https://x.com/zachickson">Zac Hickson</a></strong> took a look at the question: <a href="https://thecode.co/wordpress-interactivity-api-enterprise-ready/"><strong>Is The WordPress Interactivity API Enterprise-Ready?</strong></a> After a year of testing, they found it’s good to go since WordPress 6.5, making things easier by cutting down technical debt and boosting performance while sticking to the WordPress ecosystem. It handles standard interactive bits pretty well, but you’ll want to plan carefully for those trickier apps. It’s perfect for teams that live and breathe WordPress and want a simpler front-end setup. </p>



<p>The article takes a look at the WordPress Interactivity API by testing it out in real-life client projects. It dives into how ready it is technically, compares its performance against React, Vue, Alpine.js, and jQuery, and shares some cool case studies, like multi-site subscription systems and interactive camera demos. Plus, it gives some tips on how to implement it and some advice on when to pick this API over the others. The whole analysis is all about figuring out how doable this is for organizations that are all about WordPress.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>Author <strong>Paulo Carvajal</strong>&#8216;s new guide, <a href="https://wp-block-editor.com/mastering-complex-attributes-in-wordpress-blocks-handling-objects-arrays-and-nested-data/"><strong>Mastering Complex Attributes in WordPress Blocks: Handling Objects, Arrays, and Nested Data</strong></a>, teaches developers how to work with complex data in block attributes beyond simple text and toggles. It covers arrays for repeatable content like galleries, objects for grouped settings, and nested data structures. The tutorial shows code examples for managing state properly, validating data, and handling performance issues. It explains how to create sophisticated blocks like testimonial sliders while keeping the editing experience user-friendly and avoiding common pitfalls with state management.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="wordpress-developer-blog">WordPress Developer Blog</h3>



<p><strong>Troy Chaplin</strong> continues sharing his experience, his workflow and plugin setup on the <em>WordPress Developer Blog</em> with two articles: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/08/refactoring-the-multi-block-plugin-build-smarter-register-cleaner-scale-easier/"><strong>Refactoring the Multi-Block Plugin: Build Smarter, Register Cleaner, Scale Easier</strong></a><br />Refactor your multi-block plugin with a cleaner structure, support for all block types, and smarter registration, bundling, and asset handling.</li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/09/implementing-namespaces-and-coding-standards-in-wordpress-plugin-development/"><strong>Implementing Namespaces and Coding Standards in WordPress Plugin Development</strong></a><br />Add namespacing, autoloading, and linting to your multi-block plugin for clean, scalable WordPress development.</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Don&#8217;t miss a new article ever again. <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/subscribe/">Subscribe to the WordPress Developer Blog!</a></strong></p>



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<p><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> and <strong>Abar Thakor</strong> discussed <a href="https://openchannels.fm/how-to-start-contributing-to-the-wordpress-developer-blog-even-if-youre-new/"><strong>How to Start Contributing to the WordPress Developer Blog (Even If You’re New)</strong></a> in an episode on the OpenChannels network. Don&#8217;t wait to be an expert before contributing to the WordPress Developer Blog. Even beginners can share small solutions, guides, or case studies they&#8217;ve built. Start by browsing existing posts for inspiration, then share your idea on the <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/developer-blog-content/discussions/categories/topic-ideas">GitHub discussion panel.</a> The editorial team is super helpful and will work with you to polish your writing. Your beginner perspective might be exactly what other new developers need to see.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="artificial-intelligence-ai-and-wordpress">Artificial intelligence (AI) and WordPress</h2>



<p>A new AI Tool, <a href="https://telex.automattic.ai/projects/new"><strong>Automattic Telex</strong></a>, makes it easier to build Blocks for the block editor. <strong>Matt Mullenweg</strong> announced it in his keynote. </p>



<p><strong>Rae Morey</strong>, The Repository, reports on the reception around the Interwebs. <a href="https://www.therepository.email/automattic-debuts-telex-bringing-ai-powered-vibe-coding-to-gutenberg-blocks">Automattic Debuts Telex, Bringing AI-Powered “Vibe Coding” to Gutenberg Blocks</a>. </p>



<p><strong>Sarah Perez</strong> at <em>TechCrunch</em> also picked up the story: <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2025/09/02/wordpress-shows-off-telex-its-experimental-ai-development-tool/">WordPress shows off Telex, its experimental AI development tool</a></p>



<p><a href="https://telex.automattic.ai/projects/new">Don&#8217;t be shy, give it a whirl,</a> share your feedback, and leave a comment. <br /></p>



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<p><strong>Grzegorz Ziółkowski</strong> <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/abilities-api/releases/tag/v0.1.0">released</a> the <strong>Composer package <code>wordpress/abilities-api</code>.</strong> WordPress developers can now test the Abilities API before it officially launches in WordPress 6.9. The Abilities API creates a common language for all WordPress components to define their functionalities, making it easier for both humans and machines to understand. By using this shared language, plugins, and themes can help AI solutions find, interpret, and use capabilities across the WordPress ecosystem. You can learn more about this new feature on the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/ai/2025/07/17/abilities-api/">Make blog of the AI Team</a>. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="what-s-new-for-wordpress-playground">What&#8217;s new for WordPress Playground</h2>



<p>In this episode on the OpenChannels <a href="https://openchannels.fm/learn-how-wordpress-playground-revolutionizes-local-development-testing-and-learning/">Learn How WordPress Playground Revolutionizes Local Development Testing and Learning</a> <strong>Abha Thakor</strong> and <strong>Fellyph Cintra</strong> discuss WordPress Playground, its features, accessibility, and impact on developers and users. One new feature is the Playground Command line interface (CLI). You can use the playground CLI to spin up a WordPress instance directly from your plugin or theme folder by using with the  <code>--auto-mount</code> flag with the command. This gives you a complete development environment in seconds.</p>



<p class="has-light-background-background-color has-background"><code>npx @wp-playground/cli server --auto-mount</code></p>



<p>Recent updates also added a demo content for the plan Playground site, when accessing <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net">playground.wordpress.net</a></p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img alt="" class="wp-image-41731" height="363" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Screenshot-2025-09-04-at-13.37.00.png?resize=652%2C363&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />


<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-callout undefined not-color-set" style="border-color: #eeeeee; border-radius: 26px; border-style: solid; border-width: 0; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: left; margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; background-color: #f3efe9;">
<p><strong><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>



<p>Now also available via <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">Email me </a>with your experience</p>



<p><img alt="GitHub all releases" src="https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge" /></p>
</section>


<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity" />



<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size">For questions to be answered on the <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />


<section class="wp-block-newsletterglue-group" style="padding-top: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<p>Featured Image: Photo by Peter Nguyen on Unsplash</p>



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<p class="has-text-align-left"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>


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</section>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 06 Sep 2025 04:23:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:25:"Matt: Happy Birthday Anil";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149659";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/anil-50/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1031:"<p>If my calendar is correct, one of the OG bloggers <a href="https://www.anildash.com/">Anil Dash</a> is turning 50 today! His blog, which I <span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">believe has been active since 1999, inspired me with how he</span> effortlessly transitioned between his top-tier fandom of Prince and his thoughtful commentary on the nuances and second-order effects of what we were doing with blogging, micro-blogging, web standards, interoperability, and much more. His writing is incisive and insightful. I see a core flame of empowering independents throughout his career that very much aligns with the philosophies I aspire to. Please follow him if you don&#8217;t already, and <strong>happy birthday Anil</strong>! It appears that I have linked to him 15 times on my blog before this post, and he has commented 17+ times, the first in 2005, so we have some history! Since I started drafting this he <a href="https://dashes.com/2025/09/05/five-for-fifty/">published his Five for Fifty birthday post</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:46:59 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:95:"Open Channels FM: Expanding WordPress Capabilities with Angie and the Power of Multi-Agentic AI";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=109343";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:102:"https://openchannels.fm/expanding-wordpress-capabilities-with-angie-and-the-power-of-multi-agentic-ai/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:339:"In this episode of the Dev Pulse, Expand the Stack series, host Zach Stepek broadcasts straight from the show floor at WordCamp US 2025, where he dives into the latest innovations shaking up the WordPress community. Zach catches up with Shilo Eish Yemini and Miriam Schwab from the Elementor team in their unmistakably pink booth [&#8230;]";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 05 Sep 2025 08:22:36 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:16:"Matt: Simon Says";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149349";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/simon-says/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:237:"<p>Simon Willison <a href="https://simonwillison.net/2025/Sep/4/highlighted-tools/">has vibe-coded 124 useful tools</a>. Also check out <a href="https://simonwillison.net/2025/Aug/9/bay-area-ai/">his Lethal Trifecta presentation</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 05 Sep 2025 01:31:16 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:85:"Open Channels FM: Bridging WordPress and the Cloud Industry at CloudFest USA in Miami";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=108596";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:92:"https://openchannels.fm/bridging-wordpress-and-the-cloud-industry-at-cloudfest-usa-in-miami/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:212:"In this episode, Adam Weeks and Jonathan Wold discuss CloudFest USA, connecting WordPress and cloud industries. Wold highlights networking opportunities, his upcoming chat with Mary Hubbard, and event uniqueness.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 04 Sep 2025 13:15:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:96:"Open Channels FM: The Power of Teaching as a Beginner: How Fresh Learners Make Great Instructors";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=105423";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:102:"https://openchannels.fm/the-power-of-teaching-as-a-beginner-how-fresh-learners-make-great-instructors/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:324:"When we picture great teachers, many of us imagine experts with decades of experience. But what if some of the most impactful educators are those who just learned the ropes themselves? In a recent episode of Open Channels FM, guest Nyasha Green and host Carl Alexander dove deep into this idea and what they shared [&#8230;]";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 04 Sep 2025 10:28:09 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"Matt: God &amp;amp; Devil Debate HI";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149303";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/en-passant/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1358:"<p>There are many levels to the <a href="https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/what-is-man-that-thou-art-mindful">excellent Scott Alexander satire of God, Iblis (Islamic word for devil), and Dwarkesh Patel, one of the best new podcasters of this era</a>.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>There are people who have gone their whole lives without realizing that Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, Baa Baa Black Sheep, and the ABC Song are all the same tune [&#8230;]</p>



<p>If they’re used to stories about surgeons getting completed with the string “man”, then that’s the direction their thoughts will always go… Also, how come God can’t make humans speak normally? Everything they say is full of these um dashes!</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Which leads to a hat tip to <a href="https://briangardner.com/">Brian Gardner</a> on the incredible <a href="https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-em-dash-responds-to-the-ai-allegations">McSweeney&#8217;s Em dash responding to the the AI allegations</a>.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>So next time you read something and think, “AI wrote this—it has a lot of em dashes,” ask yourself: Is it AI? Or is it just a poet trying to give you vertigo in four lines or fewer?<br /></p>
</blockquote>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 03 Sep 2025 23:04:11 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:17:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:1:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:41:"HeroPress: HeroPress at WordCamp US 2025!";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:29:"https://heropress.com/?p=8186";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:125:"https://heropress.com/heropress-at-wordcamp-us-2025/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=heropress-at-wordcamp-us-2025";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:10885:"<img alt="A stage with giant letters spelling #WCUS on it." class="attachment-large size-large wp-post-image" height="512" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/IMG_6810.webp" width="1024" /><p>I wasn&#8217;t sure I was going to make it to WordCamp US this year, but at almost the last minute, <a href="https://wordpress.com">WordPress.com</a> helped me out with travel and accommodations! <a href="https://heropress.com/feed/#support">More on that below</a>.</p>



<h1 class="kt-adv-heading8186_232186-5e wp-block-kadence-advancedheading">Contributor Day</h1>



<p>The first day was contributor day and I was a table lead. I think we had more people this year than any other year before. I started the day showing 4 or 5 people how to become contributors, and they each uploaded 20 photos or so.  All told we moderated about 160 photos during the day, and pushed the total over 26,000. I also made some great new friends!</p>



<h2 class="kt-adv-heading8186_fc24a0-77 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading">Photography</h2>



<p>For the first time ever I was on the WordCamp Photography team. I feel like it&#8217;s a great honor because don&#8217;t really think of myself as a photographer, and I don&#8217;t even own a &#8220;real&#8221; camera, I just use my iPhone.  I do have some lenses from Moment.io which are cool, but they&#8217;re not a patch on some of the big crazy lenses I saw around.  I took several hundred pictures over the week, here are just a few:</p>



<div class="wp-block-jetpack-tiled-gallery aligncenter is-style-rectangular"><div class=""><div class="tiled-gallery__gallery"><div class="tiled-gallery__row"><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6793-1024x576.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6784-1024x433.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div></div><div class="tiled-gallery__row"><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6794-1024x576.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6825-1024x433.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div></div><div class="tiled-gallery__row"><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6884-1024x576.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6887-1024x576.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div></div><div class="tiled-gallery__row"><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6947-1024x433.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div></div><div class="tiled-gallery__row"><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7013-1024x576.webp?ssl=1" /></figure><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7015-1024x576.webp?ssl=1" /></figure><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7016-1024x576.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div><div class="tiled-gallery__col"><figure class="tiled-gallery__item"><img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7057-576x1024.webp?ssl=1" /></figure></div></div></div></div></div>



<p></p>



<h2 class="kt-adv-heading8186_e06675-2d wp-block-kadence-advancedheading">The Mural</h2>



<p>In addition to the regular photos, I got a series of <a href="https://www.jaxko.com/">Jax Ko</a> making a WordCamp mural. They painted for 2 straight days, and I took a photo about every 2 hours.  Here&#8217;s the progression in slideshow format:</p>



<div class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow aligncenter"><div class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_container swiper"><ul class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_swiper-wrapper swiper-wrapper"><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8223" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6997-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8224" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_6998-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8225" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7007-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8226" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7008-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8227" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7028-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8228" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7053-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8229" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7099-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8230" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7113-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8231" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7116-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8232" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7123-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8233" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7136-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8234" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7158-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8235" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7181-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li><li class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide"><figure><img alt="" class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-8236" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7207-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure></li></ul><a class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_button-prev swiper-button-prev swiper-button-white"></a><a class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_button-next swiper-button-next swiper-button-white"></a><a class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_button-pause"></a><div class="wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_pagination swiper-pagination swiper-pagination-white"></div></div></div>



<h2 class="kt-adv-heading8186_977d34-52 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading" id="support">How I Got There</h2>



<figure class="wp-block-kadence-image kb-image8186_46dcfe-55 size-large"><img alt="" class="kb-img wp-image-8202" height="576" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/IMG_7190-1024x576.webp" width="1024" /></figure>



<p>As I mentioned at the top, WordPress.com was my sponsor to get to WordCamp US this year. I really wanted to attend, I&#8217;ve never missed one! They very generously offered to help me get there and cover my hotel. More than that though, folks from .com at WordCamp sought me out and told me how glad they were that I was there.  It was a very welcoming gesture.</p>



<p>If you haven&#8217;t looked at WordPress.com for hosting in a while, you should check it out. There have been some substantial changes in the last few years, there are some great new features.</p>



<div class="wp-block-kadence-image kb-image8186_9641eb-32"><figure class="alignright size-large"><a class="kb-advanced-image-link" href="https://developer.wordpress.com/studio/"><img alt="WordPress.com Studio" class="kb-img wp-image-8243" height="649" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3025/09/wp_studio-1024x649.webp" width="1024" /></a></figure></div>



<p>While many people may have thought of <a href="http://wordpress.com/" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">WordPress.com</a> as a “free blog” platform only, <a href="http://wordpress.com/" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">WordPress.com</a> has been a full-featured host for years. At the business and commerce plan level the plugin library is available for both free and paid plugins, which is great, and for more advanced users and developers they offer features like <a href="https://wordpress.com/hosting/#extensibility">staging servers, SSH access, WP-CLI, github deployments</a>, and a <a href="https://developer.wordpress.com/studio/">local development environment</a>. That local dev environment allows you to copy sites from production to local and then push back to either staging or production. This lets you to work on your site without disrupting your visitors’ experiences.</p>



<p>Even if you don&#8217;t have hosting needs at the moment, you can still get involved! They have a great affiliate program, <a href="https://wordpress.com/affiliates/">check it out here</a>. </p>
<p>The post <a href="https://heropress.com/heropress-at-wordcamp-us-2025/">HeroPress at WordCamp US 2025!</a> appeared first on <a href="https://heropress.com">HeroPress</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 03 Sep 2025 18:52:18 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:77:"Open Channels FM: Open Channels FM Joins as a Media Partner for CloudFest USA";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=106125";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:84:"https://openchannels.fm/open-channels-fm-joins-as-a-media-partner-for-cloudfest-usa/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:167:"Open Channels FM partners with CloudFest USA in Miami on November 5-6, highlighting keynotes, panels, and networking opportunities for cloud and hosting professionals.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 03 Sep 2025 16:36:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:140:"WPTavern: #183 – Destiny Kanno, Isotta Peira and Anand Upadhyay on how WordPress is shaping the future of education for students worldwide";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=199013";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:153:"https://wptavern.com/podcast/183-destiny-kanno-isotta-peira-and-anand-upadhyay-on-how-wordpress-is-shaping-the-future-of-education-for-students-worldwide";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:75449:"<details>Transcript<div>
<p>[00:00:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>



<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress, the people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how WordPress is shaping the future of education for students worldwide.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>



<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>



<p>So on the podcast today, we have Destiny Kanno, Isotta Peira, and Anand Upadhyay.</p>



<p>Destiny is the Head of Community Education at Automattic. Isotta is the leader of the WordPress Credits Initiative for students, and Anand is the founder of WordPress Campus Connect.</p>



<p>This episode is all about how WordPress is not only powering websites, but also empowering the next generation of learners and creators. You&#8217;ll hear about the growing movement of education focused WordPress events happening worldwide, from hands-on workshops on university campuses in India, to student clubs designed to keep the momentum going after introductory events.</p>



<p>Anand shares how WP Campus Connect is bringing WordPress directly to students, reducing barriers to entry, and helping bridge the gap between academic learning and real world tech skills. We also explore the challenges of organizing these events, from convincing institutions of the value of open source, to fostering genuine community involvement among both students and educators.</p>



<p>Isotta then introduces us to the WordPress Credits Program, an initiative that lets students turn their contributions to the WordPress ecosystem into recognized academic credits at universities like, Pisa in Italy. It&#8217;s a win-win. Students gain practical resume worthy experience, while educational institutions get a transferable, skills focused, program that prepares learners for the jobs of the future.</p>



<p>Whether you&#8217;re an educator, a WordPress enthusiast, or just someone who cares about open source and community, this episode is packed with actionable insights. The guests share how flexible and resilient these education initiatives are, how you can get involved, and why engaging the next generation is not just important, but essential for the continued growth and sustainability of the WordPress community.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s a truly inspiring episode, and is at the intersection of so many areas of profound importance.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re curious about how to bring WordPress into your local school, university, or community, or if you just want to hear how WordPress is making a difference far beyond the web, this episode is for you.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>



<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Destiny Kanno, Isotta Peira and Anand Upadhyay.</p>



<p>I am joined on the podcast by Destiny Kanno, by Isotta Peira, and also by Anand Upadhyay. Welcome all three of you. Thanks for joining me today.</p>



<p>Now just before we begin this podcast, we&#8217;re going to be talking about education, the education landscape, and how WordPress combines with that. I hope during the course of this conversation, you will get an impression that this is something which is very dear to my heart. We don&#8217;t need to go into that, but this is about the most profoundly purposeful use of a CMS that I can actually imagine. I mean, I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s other scenarios for other people, but for me, this is the perfect sweet spot. Education, WordPress, open source software. It doesn&#8217;t basically get better than that for me.</p>



<p>So with that out of the way, I think it would be good to go round the houses one at a time and just give a little short biography of who you are, where you work, what your history is with WordPress, something like that. You can make it as long or as short as you like, but if we keep it under a minute, maybe something like that, that would be good. So let&#8217;s go to Destiny first.</p>



<p>[00:04:46] <strong>Destiny Kanno:</strong> Yes. Hi there, I&#8217;m Destiny. I&#8217;m currently head of community education at Automattic. I&#8217;m a sponsored contributor in the .org space. And yes, before working on the exciting new initiatives we&#8217;re going to chat through today, I was working alongside the training team, two years as a training team rep, helping build out content, like online workshops and courses and learning pathways. And I was part of the group of folks that brought that new relaunch live last year. So yeah, exciting stuff, and that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m up to right now.</p>



<p>[00:05:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, that&#8217;s great. Thank you so much. We have some context there, that&#8217;s lovely. And okay, let&#8217;s go to Isotta. Do you want to give us your bio next?</p>



<p>[00:05:30] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> Sure. Thanks a lot Nathan for inviting us and, yeah. I&#8217;m Isotta, I&#8217;ve been around the community since, WordPress community since 2022 when I joined Automattic, and I&#8217;ve been a sponsored contributor since then. For the past year, three years, four years, I&#8217;ve been contributing full time to the community team. And recently this year I switched on to the educational initiative, and I&#8217;m currently leading the WordPress Credits program for students.</p>



<p>[00:06:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, thank you very much. And finally, Anand.</p>



<p>[00:06:04] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> Hi, my name is Anand, and I am running a WordPress plugin development company WPVibes. I am a user of WordPress from the last 15 years, since 2010 I&#8217;m using WordPress for various purposes.</p>



<p>I have been contributing to WordPress through much multiple channels like Core, docs, polyglots, jumping from one team to another. And from the last year, I have found like my new passion. Just like you, I am also passionate about education and teaching. So from the last year, I found this idea of WordPress Campus Connect, and currently I&#8217;m very much involved in trying to bring it to the broader community.</p>



<p>[00:06:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you so much. So I think we&#8217;ve established that the panelists today, there&#8217;s a lot of really meaningful contributions in all of your past, especially around WordPress and education. So let&#8217;s dig into that a little bit. As I said at the top of this show, I can&#8217;t see a more meaningful use of WordPress, frankly.</p>



<p>I mean, I don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s like in the places where you live, but in the UK where I live, education is one of those things where we like to talk about it being a priority, but the finances kind of don&#8217;t really match up to that aspiration. And so things like ICT, websites, coding, all of that, it&#8217;s a nice thing to have, but I think often it gets left in the background a little bit.</p>



<p>And because of that, things like open source platforms, I feel there&#8217;s a really great use of that, not only from the educator&#8217;s point of view, you know, people that can use those platforms to help with their class education, maybe set up a community website, maybe set up a school website or something like that. But also from the point of view of learners, people who wish to get a leg up in life, and figure that maybe learning technology and learning how to build on the web is a credible place for them to start.</p>



<p>So let&#8217;s just go through, where is WordPress at the moment in the educational landscape? I know that&#8217;s incredibly broad because we haven&#8217;t sort of pinned it down to any of the projects. Where are we at? What are the initiatives that are going on at the moment? So, again, anybody that wants to jump in, if we do a bit of crosstalking, so be it. But anybody that wants to jump in, just go for it.</p>



<p>[00:08:13] <strong>Destiny Kanno:</strong> I&#8217;ll start from like what I&#8217;ve observed a little bit. I&#8217;m pretty new to the Community Team itself and this event space, but I have seen that there have been a few education related events happening throughout the years, regardless of WordPress Campus Connect.</p>



<p>Like in Africa, they recently had their, I think it&#8217;s annual event, I believe in Uganda. And that has been going on for a while. It just hasn&#8217;t been under like the name WordPress Campus Connect.</p>



<p>And then I believe as well, and correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, there was, with Sebastian in Poland, this like WordPress Academy, like they&#8217;re also doing like education type events and initiatives. But when it comes to now this WordPress Campus Connect, it&#8217;s an official event series, like do_action. It has like more intention around that. And I think because when you go in and you, you know, apply to organise, and now there&#8217;s this way to do it through WordPress Campus Connect, it&#8217;s just going to bring those initiatives that are already happening into like a more streamlined funnel of people seeing that it&#8217;s happening, I think, in a more, how do I say it?</p>



<p>[00:09:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Cohesive would be the word.</p>



<p>[00:09:22] <strong>Destiny Kanno:</strong> Yeah, cohesive way. Thank you.</p>



<p>[00:09:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, so I guess what you&#8217;re saying there is that there&#8217;s a lot of people out there in the WordPress community, many of whom might be educators or, you know, working in a school or what have you, and that they&#8217;ve rolled their own thing like we all have with WordPress. And that&#8217;s great. That&#8217;s one of the benefits of having open source software. You download it, roll your own, what have you.</p>



<p>But it&#8217;s also, it&#8217;s nice, it&#8217;s meaningful, it&#8217;s impactful if everybody can see, oh, there&#8217;s a bigger, kind of more organised piece somewhere. And it may not fit exactly what I&#8217;m doing, but at least I can see that it can be deployed this way. Maybe I can talk to those people, get some intuitions and ideas from those people and what have you, yeah.</p>



<p>[00:10:01] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> I wanted to jump in and connect with what Destiny was saying because this is exactly what happened from the community perspective. So talking about events, a few years ago we were seeing the Training Team doing a lot of great progress around education and the Community Team around events. But we weren&#8217;t that connected between contribution teams. And we&#8217;ve also, as like project wise, we were seeing also the need to bring a different type of audience to the WordPress events.</p>



<p>And we weren&#8217;t exploring at all the education field. With all the students around the world, we weren&#8217;t like taking care of them in our programs. So from the Community Team, they kind of encourage organisers all over the world to come up with new diverse format for events. And in 2023 it was launched this, it was called at the time next generation of WordPress events.</p>



<p>And one of the formats that stood out was exactly the Campus Connect brought up by Anand and the community. And other events like the Website challenge, and the others that&#8217;s been mentioned. And as he was saying, then we have had the time now to come back, connect the pieces between different contribution teams, and be able to offer something recognisable, standardised, something not as overwhelming as sometimes open source programs are.</p>



<p>And so we hope not just to reach a wider audience of students, but also to empower more teachers, more trainings, and anybody else in the community into bringing WordPress in any different type of education at different levels. With the support of course of the community.</p>



<p>[00:11:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We will get into the bits that WP Campus Connect do in a moment, but just coming back to something that you said there, it feels to me, if I browse around in the WordPress landscape, and trust me, I browse around in the WordPress landscape rather a lot. It always feels to me as if, how to describe this, initiatives where companies sell WordPress on, they build things and there&#8217;s a fee involved. You know, so you&#8217;re a web agency or what have you, you build the thing and you sell it on.</p>



<p>That seems to dominate the conversation. And the more philanthropic side of things, the education piece, the bit where you&#8217;re just, you&#8217;re doing the work because it&#8217;s meaningful, and perhaps you are not getting remunerated for it. That bit somehow gets, well, it gets ignored. It somehow is the silent relation of the for-profit things. You know, you hang out in Facebook groups and you hang out on Twitter, X, whatever, online, it&#8217;s always the for-profit bit, which seems to be making the noise, you know, the plugins, the themes, and rah, rah, rah.</p>



<p>And this kind of stuff seems to get left. And I don&#8217;t know why that is, but it&#8217;s, hopefully this podcast is addressing some of that.</p>



<p>Anyway, sorry Anand, I think it&#8217;s your turn to have a little bit of a chat with us. Tell us about, yeah, the same question really, your experience in the education space and where you think WordPress is at at the moment.</p>



<p>[00:13:02] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> Yeah, so just as you explained about the state of education in the UK, so the same is in our region, India as well. So students in the academic life are slightly disconnected with the, what is happening in the industry? So there is like a gap between the academics and the industry. So through these kind of events, we are empowering the students to come closer to what really happening in there.</p>



<p>And we are also helping them to make aware about the various carrier opportunities that WordPress ecosystem can bring to them. It&#8217;s not like about just one thing, it&#8217;s also about if someone is interested in programming, someone is interested in designing, SEO, content. So there is something for everyone, right?</p>



<p>So with this program, we are trying to connect the students with the various career opportunities, and also trying to bring some fresh energy to the WordPress ecosystem. They can become the contributors, they can bring their own fresh perspective. Because I have read somewhere the WordPress community in many areas is aging. We need that new fresh energy. So this kind of program can also address that problem.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s always good to have more people getting involved in the contribution, like sort of just started with the WP Credit, which is bringing actually students to the contribution. And the Campus program is trying to introduce them to the WordPress. So all these kind of programmers combined with working towards getting more and more people getting involved in the WordPress ecosystem, and trying to make the project more sustainable in the long run.</p>



<p>[00:14:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of interesting, I attend quite a lot of WordPress events, and particularly the flagship events so, you know, the WordCamp Asia&#8217;s and Europe&#8217;s and US and what have you. And, I think you&#8217;re right about the demographic. The demographic definitely skews older. It&#8217;s hard to see anything above, I would imagine 10% of the crowd that would be under the age of 20. I have no data to back any of that up. I&#8217;m kind of putting my finger in the air a little bit.</p>



<p>But it feels like that. It feels like the demographic is, I don&#8217;t know, 30, 35, 40 and above. And if that were the only reason that you were doing WP Campus Connect, that in itself would be a credible reason, you know? But obviously there&#8217;s a lot more to it than that. But just that alone would be significant and important.</p>



<p>And I think also, in a world dominated by proprietary platforms where everything is siloed, you don&#8217;t own your own data, the experience is exciting because there&#8217;s some kind of algorithm trying to hook into your brainstem, then we need to get these young people. And because we don&#8217;t have the marketing budgets of a Facebook or a TikTok or what have you, then we have to do it in different ways. And attaching an event to a campus, to a university, to an educational institution is a great way I think of doing this.</p>



<p>So firstly, bravo, for getting this thing off the ground. Perhaps this one is for Anand again. I don&#8217;t know if he wants to take this question, but can you just describe what WP Campus Connect is? What&#8217;s involved in that? What&#8217;s the age group? Where are you doing it predominantly? How long has it been going? As much or as little as you like. And depending on what you give back to us, we can take it from there.</p>



<p>[00:16:09] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> Yeah, so WordPress Campus Connect, there is no like fixed criteria on to whom you are going to deliver this. So the only thing is we are going to the students, we are going to their campus. We are not creating a kind of WordCamp kind of thing, or centralised workshop where everybody is coming to our venue and we are delivering them the knowledge, but it&#8217;s about going to their campus. And because this will reduce the friction, like if we are going to organise an event, centralised event, we are inviting everyone to join, then there will be a friction. A lot of people might not going to join. Maybe there were some valid reasons as well.</p>



<p>So with Campus Connect, we are going to their campus and delivering the WordPress knowledge to them. And so far we have done this in the universities, postgraduate colleges, undergraduate students. And we are helping them to understand the WordPress, how WordPress can be a career choice for them, and how WordPress can be useful for whatever their interest is.</p>



<p>Because as I already said, that there is students, if we are going to a college or university, that every student might have different kind of interests. Maybe they are enrolled in the same course, but still they have, might have some different kind of interests.</p>



<p>So we are trying to explain them that they are with various career opportunities available so you can jump in. And we are doing it through the hands-on workshops. It&#8217;s not like that we are just doing a kind of seminar or lecture kind of thing. We are doing it in form of a kind of a hands-on workshop, like five to six hour workshop where we will help them to build their first website.</p>



<p>And it&#8217;s not about like we want to make them expert in six hours. It&#8217;s not possible. So what we want to do is, we want to give them a feeling of accomplishment. This is something that is something interesting and this is something that we can use and build something.</p>



<p>So this way, if they get some, after six hour workshop or five hours workshop, if they&#8217;re coming out with kind of feeling of accomplishment that this is interesting, we should explore it further, we should explore it more. So that&#8217;s our win.</p>



<p>[00:18:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Can I ask, in the part of the world where you are, is there a real hunger for this? Is there a real appetite for this? Because with the best will in the world, I think there might be a geographical divide in terms of interest and hunger for things like WordPress. And again, there&#8217;s no heuristics behind this, this is me supposing from what I&#8217;ve heard and conversations that I have had.</p>



<p>It feels like in your part of the world, and you only have to look at plugin contributions, contributions to Core, events that are taking place in your neck of the woods. It seems like there&#8217;s a real appetite for it, that there may not be quite in the part of the world where I am from. So first of all, can we speak to that? Is that the case? Is it like, you know, you put this stuff on and people show up? You build it and they come?</p>



<p>[00:18:56] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> Yeah, so there is a quite hunger. India is like a kind of a very large country and if you count the number of WordCamps that happening in India every year, it&#8217;s quite big. Right now, these are like two, three months where we don&#8217;t have any WordCamps because it&#8217;s mostly the rainy season in everywhere. Otherwise every month you will have one or two WordCamps. And the communities that are organising WordCamps struggle to find a date that is not conflicting with another WordCamp in the same country. So that&#8217;s how the things happen.</p>



<p>If you talk about the beginning of this year, first three weekends have WordCamps in India, and all were very successful. So there is a kind of WordPress community is very engaging in India, and so the way everywhere.</p>



<p>And also if you talk about the hunger in the students, so it can vary about what they are learning, what their background is, where they&#8217;re located. But, yeah, students from what we have interacted, because we interacted with the students who doesn&#8217;t have any knowledge. We got a very good response. We saw them talking about like, oh, this is great. We can do something amazing with this. We have a lot of ideas already. This is something that we can use to implement those ideas.</p>



<p>So there is surely a hunger, but we just need to give them a path like, this is the path, and you can follow this. And we need to ensure them, there&#8217;s big opportunities, big market opportunities are also waiting for them if they excellent with some skills in this segment.</p>



<p>[00:20:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I think it&#8217;s true to say that more or less every young person, let&#8217;s go, child or young adult or what have you, has some sort of insatiable appetite to learn. But given the education that they&#8217;re presented with, given the opportunities that are put in front of them, their experience of life later on will be very different. And so if WordPress never comes on the menu for them, if nobody ever suggests, well, have a look at this thing, then they&#8217;ll never know about this thing. This whole wonderful world of online publishing and all of the myriad things that you can do around the WordPress ecosystem. And so WP Campus Connect, I guess is facilitating that.</p>



<p>Now, curiously though, you said that you go to where the educational institution is. How does that work? How do you connect, so again, this doesn&#8217;t have to go to Anand, this can go to anybody. How do you connect the educator, let&#8217;s say, or the institution that wishes to put something on because, you know, their students might like it. How do you connect the educational institution with the people who then go in and provide this WordPress workshop and training? How does that work? How does that get paid for? Is it all voluntary? There&#8217;s a lot in there to unpack, but I hope you get the thrust of my question. How do all those jigsaw pieces fit together?</p>



<p>[00:21:37] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> The first thing is it&#8217;s all voluntary. So just like in a WordCamp, we have an organising team, a team of organisers and speakers. Nobody&#8217;s getting paid for this. We are also doing it voluntary. We have a team of organisers, not specifically to me, every WordCamp has a team of organisers, have a team of volunteers, workshop facilitators who are organising the workshops. So it&#8217;s all voluntary, nobody&#8217;s getting paid.</p>



<p>And also it&#8217;s free for students as well. There is no charge for students from the WordPress Campus team. So it&#8217;s not like we are putting a kind of a ticket to them. It&#8217;s completely free. Going to your question about getting the institutes convinced for letting us do the workshop in their campus, so it&#8217;s kind of a tricky thing.</p>



<p>The first time we reached out to the institute, so it was very tricky. I get to the college with a pitch deck. So I pitched the complete idea, complete presentation to show them what is WordPress, what are the kind of community thing? Because every institute has this question like, why you are doing this? What are your benefit?</p>



<p>And It&#8217;s the same thing that you said, we have to pass that bureaucracy before getting to the better benefit of the student. We have to go to the bureaucracy. And it&#8217;s a genuine question in their mind as well, because, not a lot of such communities exist that are doing these kind of free things voluntarily. For the students. So the first question we were asked is, why are you doing this? What are your benefits? And don&#8217;t expect anything from us.</p>



<p>[00:22:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It rings so bizarre in the world in which we live. Everything about that screams, hang on. Wait, where&#8217;s the catch? Where&#8217;s the sales pitch? What&#8217;s going to happen after the fact?</p>



<p>[00:23:10] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> We have to work on with this way and we have to explain like complete things. We showed them that these are the big events that in the WordCamp ecosystem happens, and we are trying to create a unique initiative for students and we&#8217;ll be delivering everything free to them. And we were not going to charge, we just need you to provide the students and the required infrastructure.</p>



<p>So the pitch is really tough. In some institutes we got very understanding people who understood what we are saying. Within the next 15 minutes, we got them convinced. In some places we have to discuss a lot of questions. But yeah, it was again, interesting experience as well. We got some general feedback from them as, because last time it was the very first time we were doing this kind of thing. We don&#8217;t have any reference, like we just have an idea like we are going through this thing. So we also brainstorm with them like, what are the expectation of your students? They also gave us some suggestions.</p>



<p>So because in every institute you&#8217;ll find different kind of students, you have to plan your workshops, you have to plan your workflow according to the interest of the students. So that&#8217;s how we approached, yeah, to convince the institute is the most tricky part. Because other than that, if you have to do workshop, we have our facilitators who are already working in WordPress. So it&#8217;s not difficult for them to deliver the same knowledge to adults. The only barrier that we have is to convince the college and universities to join and become a partner.</p>



<p>[00:24:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And has that journey, that, I guess bridge that you&#8217;ve got to cross, has that now become more straightforward? In that, you&#8217;ve got a history of things that you&#8217;ve done. So it&#8217;s now more a case of, look, here&#8217;s the testimonials. Here&#8217;s the things that have happened. We have credibility, we&#8217;ve done it before. This is not brand new. Has that become an easier journey? In other words, the door is more open than it was the first few times around.</p>



<p>[00:24:54] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> Yeah, so the last year it was very tough. We have to reach up to them, take appointment, go there and spend some time there. And this year in the institute where we have done this last year, I just sent them a message like, we are doing it again, and if you want to be a part, just fill this form and we will discuss further.</p>



<p>It works. So it&#8217;s much easier. And to those who are not a partner last year, but they have seen our post on the social media after the event, and they reached out to us like somehow we missed it, this time connect with us whenever you are doing it again. So once you have done this thing, you have a credibility and you can just showcase them.</p>



<p>After that event, we have got a lot of the students joining our meetup. Before that, I&#8217;m running our city meetup from 2017, and we barely get 10 to 12 members in every meetup. Right now we are doing the meetups of 40 to 50 members. And it&#8217;s a kind of amazing thing. And it&#8217;s not only about having a lot of the students only. After seeing the students joining in, after seeing our pictures and the sort of local community going on, some professionals are also jumping in to join the meetups.</p>



<p>Because they see that there is something valuable going on. So they&#8217;re also joining. So this is something amazing, because this is a byproduct. You&#8217;ll be able to grow your local community. You&#8217;ll be able to strengthen your local community more.</p>



<p>[00:26:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I have such profound respect for what you are doing. It is almost bringing tears to my eyes. It&#8217;s incredible. Everything that you say there is just so philanthropic. It&#8217;s just philanthropy all the way down. College students probably don&#8217;t have a great deal of money to throw around. They would want to consume education, which will make their life prospects better. They would like that to be as affordable as possible.</p>



<p>And you show up, like here&#8217;s a bunch of stuff and it&#8217;s completely free. Okay, that&#8217;s great. And then there&#8217;s this virtuous cycle of, okay, we do it each year. That becomes easier, because the testimonials work, and presumably you can spread out and the ripples will move around where you live. And then hopefully maybe hop through jurisdictions and borders and international, who knows? We can get to that.</p>



<p>But then also this knock on effect, which was maybe unexpected, a consequence that was unexpected of the WordPress community, the meetups that you offer, the swelling there and swelling in the, we talked about the demographics earlier, it&#8217;s skewing younger. And if you can attract a percentage of those, and keep them sticking around in the community, they can then take on these roles in the future.</p>



<p>And the whole thing kind of propels itself. What it needed was the prime mover, which was you, which is pretty incredible. So I don&#8217;t know if Destiny or Isotta want to add anything. I&#8217;m almost speechless.</p>



<p>[00:27:31] <strong>Destiny Kanno:</strong> I did have like a few points I wanted to add to what everyone&#8217;s saying. Reducing barriers has been a huge factor of setting this up. Originally we were using like the previous event organisation form and were like, actually there&#8217;s a lot of stuff in here. It doesn&#8217;t make sense for this use case. So we really paid a lot of attention to just thinking differently for this, and treating it differently. We don&#8217;t have to use the same things as we had before.</p>



<p>And Isotta said before, like it&#8217;s standardised in a way, but it&#8217;s flexible too. So even though we have this framework that people can come to, we don&#8217;t say, you can only do the event in this way. You can have a one day event, you could do a half day event, you could have event series over a couple weeks like Anand is doing, and that is totally cool. Like, however you want to run this, we are open to that, and we&#8217;re also here to mentor you and support you in that.</p>



<p>And then I, a thought came to my mind as Anand was talking, and you Nathan as well about like, you know, what&#8217;s in it for the volunteers? And I&#8217;m like, I think it&#8217;s an opportunity for volunteers just as much as it is the students, because they&#8217;re also getting exposure to these universities. And I don&#8217;t know, maybe someone has an ambition to teach at university someday, or like at least teach about WordPress at a university. So, you know, as you go into these, yes, there&#8217;s a hundred percent the philanthropic aspect, but it&#8217;s also like a learning experience for you as well as a volunteer to be in that space with the students too.</p>



<p>And then lastly, I wanted to say as well, like going a little bit back about the current climate and how it feels like we are kind of like aging, I&#8217;ve also noticed in my experience it&#8217;s like, we are all also just, this is probably very like, duh, but we&#8217;re all professionals, right? So we&#8217;re not really looking to talk to students most of the time. We&#8217;re looking to sell something or network or like talk to other professionals. So I do think that this is a great way to bring in that new batch of folks that are going to become professionals, hopefully in the WordPress space. But yeah, it&#8217;s just that renewal instead of like just trying to sell or buy from whoever&#8217;s there based off of whatever you&#8217;re currently working on in the WordPress space.</p>



<p>[00:29:46] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you. Isotta, anything you want to throw in at this point?</p>



<p>[00:29:49] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> Of course. I want to add one point about the aging discussion that we were having, because also, in my opinion, it is true what you, Nathan, said at the beginning that just only the fact of reaching younger people is a way to make the project more sustainable, long term. But also I would love everyone to think about the other way around, because what is WordPress giving to all these younger generations?</p>



<p>Because wins are much, I mean, for how I see it, I see like a winning opportunity everywhere. Because it&#8217;s not just about reducing the age of the people involved in the project. If we reduce the age, but people are not engaged. If they&#8217;re not getting what they need, learning opportunities, networking opportunities, even just opportunities to understand that they have a whole world around them, they didn&#8217;t even know that it existed, which happened to me before I learned about WordPress community and WordPress, this is huge.</p>



<p>So this is a real, like all this initiative are core of the service that will be giving to millions of students. For now, we are at thousands of students already, but, this would be available for any students worldwide. And this is a pretty big deal, I believe, for younger generation and their futures.</p>



<p>[00:31:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think it&#8217;s, on every level this is just so remarkably interesting, and the growth of it hopefully we&#8217;ll get into the millions. Right now you say you&#8217;re in the thousands. It&#8217;s still remarkable.</p>



<p>I want to sort of drill into it a little bit. So it feels like there&#8217;s this sort of double fronted marketplace aspect to it where WP Campus Connect kind of sits in the middle, and so you&#8217;ve got WP Campus Connect in the center, and then on the one side you&#8217;ve got the students and the institutions that those students attend. And then on the other side, you&#8217;ve got the educators who will come into that institution and WP Campus Connect is sort of like the fulcrum, the center, the spokes all lead into WP Campus Connect, and they do all the connecting and what have you.</p>



<p>Let&#8217;s talk about the educator side. So this is people who already are familiar with WordPress. Are there any constraints on who you would welcome into WP Campus Connect there? Like, is there any level of expertise that you&#8217;ve got to have, or any kind of proof that you&#8217;ve got to go through that you, yourself would be a credible educator? I don&#8217;t know, so that&#8217;s open to anybody. Is there any kind of barrier to entry if you are an existing WordPresser and want to be involved?</p>



<p>[00:32:20] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> Yeah, so far we have not planned any kind of a specific requirements or the limitations or criteria. So far we have picked from the local community members, like we just opened the call for facilitators, and all those who are interested in teaching. And they responded to it and we just picked them.</p>



<p>We are doing a kind of a series of event to, I think five to six colleges in this time and going every weekend to one college. So we have a pool of four workshop facilitators and we&#8217;ll be rotating them to multiple colleges. So this is how it is working. So there is no kind of barrier kind of thing.</p>



<p>We are just thinking about if they are ready for the community work, because there may be many educators, but there may not be everyone who will be doing it for free because we are not going to pay them anything. So if they have the community feeling, they have the community vibes and they can come forward for this. So that&#8217;s the only criteria we have. You have the WordPress knowledge, you have the love for community. Just come forward and join us for the event.</p>



<p>[00:33:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, that&#8217;s great. Great to hear. So staying on that side of things then, I remember my forays in education, one of the things that was kind of drummed into me was, failing to plan is planning to fail. And so there was always this aspect of, if you&#8217;re going to stand up in front of a bunch of people, you have to be ready. You can&#8217;t necessarily, I mean you can, right? A workshop environment maybe maps to that pretty well, where you stand up and it&#8217;s led by what the audience, the students in this case, would like to hear.</p>



<p>I&#8217;m wondering if there&#8217;s a curriculum which you have planned or do plan, or if somebody can kind of like drop in and just pick up the pieces of paper if you like and say, okay, here&#8217;s the lesson plan, if you like. WP Campus Connect has put these plans together, and we&#8217;re going to go and show these students how to do this.</p>



<p>So that is my ignorance. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s the kind of thing that you do. Do you provide materials for wannabe educators to deliver, or is it very much you create your own curriculum on the fly or however you wish to do that?</p>



<p>[00:34:16] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> So we just meet together and just plan, just think about like how we can go on ahead, like what are the things that we to teach? And we just brainstorm it together. It&#8217;s not like we are giving the, because there is not much different between the organiser and workshop facilitators here. So we are all the community members, so we have just divided the roles, but we are all, they&#8217;re working towards the same goal.</p>



<p>So we just all sit together, brainstorm the ideas, like what should we give to the students? So for example, last year we helped them to build a kind of a business website. So all the educators plan together. So we will follow this workflow, we will follow this approach. And we went to one college, we tried to do the same thing. We came back and then we again said what went wrong? What was difficult for the students to follow? How we can overcome them in the next college? We repeat, we improvise and deliver the same thing.</p>



<p>This year we, again, we are planning, so we again sit together. And then we thought about, last year we helped them to create a kind of a simple business website, but we found that students were not connected with that. They built the same thing, but they didn&#8217;t utilise it later because it was not connected to them. So this year we are planning to help them to build their personal portfolio website, a kind of a resume, where they can showcase their projects, they can showcase their resume, they can showcase their work or learning what they have done. So we are planning that kind of website.</p>



<p>So again, our workshop facilitators are working together, all those educators, and working together to create a kind of a reference website. And then we will guide them to recreate this, the same thing, adding their own touch because this will be more personalised thing. They will get attached to this, and maybe we can have some of the students to put their websites live. So it&#8217;ll be, again, a good chance.</p>



<p>And we are also getting some support from the hosting companies who are offering some pre-hosting accounts so we can do kind of a competition kind of thing, or someone who has done incredible work during the workshops and post workshop, we can provide them those free hostings and they can get the chance to put their website live.</p>



<p>[00:36:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so it&#8217;s a real kind of project based education then. So you walk into the room, you interact with the educators, you ask questions, I&#8217;m struggling with this thing, I can&#8217;t make this work, and they come and step in. So you described it as a workshop and maybe the audience, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re familiar with that kind of setup, but education often felt like to me, person at the front with some kind of display, whiteboard, blackboard, whatever. They talk, I listen, I fall asleep.</p>



<p>But this is not that. This is, okay, we have a project, we&#8217;re going to design a business website, a personal portfolio, resume kind of website. And the idea is that you interact with that and by the time you&#8217;ve left, you&#8217;ve got some useful knowledge. You&#8217;ve done a thing, not just listen to somebody talking about possibly doing a thing hands on. Okay, that&#8217;s brilliant.</p>



<p>Is there any kind of age restriction? Because obviously if I was to bring along a 3-year-old to this, we would question the utility of that. You kept talking about colleges and I think you mentioned universities a couple of times. So it feels to me as if we&#8217;re 18 or something is kind of where this goes, yeah?</p>



<p>[00:37:28] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> Yeah, most of the students we interacted with are around mostly 17 plus we can say, 17 or 18 plus. So that&#8217;s the age group. And this year we have got a student, we have got a request from one of the high school as well. So they want to, their approach was very nice. They want to give the students kind of exposure to what they are going to face after completing their high school. So they&#8217;re running kind of a program so they&#8217;re also interested in if we can just go to their school and give their students some kind of a short introduction about any skill that is relevant for them. So we&#8217;re also getting that kind of request as well.</p>



<p>[00:38:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and that&#8217;s such an interesting age as well, because you haven&#8217;t yet kind of formulated your path. And I think maybe by the time you get to 16, 17, 18, you&#8217;re more funneled. You&#8217;ve made decisions which have led you in a certain direction. You know, I&#8217;m going to be a, I&#8217;m into agriculture, I want to do whatever it may be.</p>



<p>But if the high school level, everything&#8217;s wide open still, isn&#8217;t it? And if you can get them and expose somebody that&#8217;s never been on a computer even, and, oh look, I put something and people nowhere in me can suddenly see it, that may open up a completely new pathway.</p>



<p>But what you&#8217;ve got going at the moment, what do these students get in return? Is there like a quid pro quo? Is there some, sort of leading question here really. Is there some credit that you might get on the other end of this? Do students get to walk away with, apart from obviously the knowledge, which is now in their head for life, do they get to walk away with some kind of accreditation to say, I did this, here&#8217;s my certificate, or whatever it may be?</p>



<p>[00:38:59] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> Yeah. So we are again providing them certificates for the completion of attending the workshop. And, yes, obviously they are getting some amazing knowledge, amazing exposure to the community. Yeah, but as a proof of thing that they have done something, we are providing them certificates.</p>



<p>[00:39:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. And obviously, you know, if they then continue that participation in the meetups and what have you, you get the bit which is way more important than the certificate, which is the actual exposure to the people out there in the real world who can give you that leg up or point you in the right direction for the person that you need to help you on that first career step.</p>



<p>So I&#8217;m just going to the panel, I&#8217;m just going to say. Did you want to add anything to that? So I was talking about this sort of double fronted marketplace, you know, students, one side, educators on the other. Anything to add?</p>



<p>[00:39:43] <strong>Destiny Kanno:</strong> Well, I did want to add in general that we&#8217;ve been very careful to say in all of the handbooks and landing pages, educational institutions. So that could be colleges, that could be high schools, that could be technical schools or different business schools, boot camps, wherever you&#8217;re getting educated on something that WordPress can maybe be hand in hand with.</p>



<p>We would love you to run a WordPress Campus Connect event, so I wanted to like make sure we clarify that. And then also, anyone could put this on. A request to organise could come from like a teacher, for example, or a student even. We&#8217;re not like limiting it to local community organisers or anything like that. So if there is direct interest as well from a campus, then that&#8217;s even better because, you know, they&#8217;re going to have a venue and all they really need is like mentorship and maybe some facilitators.</p>



<p>And then to plug in just a bit, you were like, what kind of curriculum do they have? Don&#8217;t forget, there&#8217;s Learn WordPress, you know, .org as well where folks can definitely use the materials there to craft their own curriculum or a series of workshops or whatever they&#8217;re going to put on as well. So I do want to ensure folks know that there are resources available that are free to help you with that part of the programming too.</p>



<p>[00:41:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m just going to read this into the record. If you are, I don&#8217;t know how podcasts are consumed, I just know that they&#8217;re consumed in a wide variety of ways. If you are driving the car or you are walking somewhere and you think, I&#8217;ll get to this later, stop. If you know an educator somewhere, make a point to mention this to them at some point. You know, tomorrow, get home, phone them up. They&#8217;ve probably never heard of this. They&#8217;re probably not in the WordPress space. They probably don&#8217;t have the slightest intuition that this freely available stuff could step into their institution, with what sounds like minimal work required on their part.</p>



<p>But it&#8217;s unlikely that they&#8217;re WordPressers in the same way that you are because you&#8217;re listening to this podcast. So that&#8217;s my request to you, that&#8217;s your philanthropic request of the day. Go and mention it to the people that you know, who work in these places and have connections with these places, because it won&#8217;t happen without those kind of things happening. So, sorry, Isotta, I didn&#8217;t allow you a chance to speak. I got all carried away.</p>



<p>[00:42:00] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> Don&#8217;t worry at all, Nathan. I believe that we&#8217;ve been saying a lot already, and there is just a good amount of information around for everyone who&#8217;s listening about how this program works, how to connect with us, and how to just launch their Campus Connect series events in their cities.</p>



<p>[00:42:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So we&#8217;ve spent a long time thinking about WP Campus Connect, but something that was dropped into the show notes, and I confess, I don&#8217;t really have a great deal of background on this, so you&#8217;re going to have to explain it in full. WordPress Credits. The name I guess suggests something, but I don&#8217;t really know what that something is. So, Isotta, if you fancy just running with that, tell us about WordPress Credits.</p>



<p>[00:42:39] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> Of course. Big pleasure for me to share more about it. WordPress Credits, in simple words, is a contribution based practice programs by the WordPress foundation open to students to just to bridge them in the Core of WordPress. Regardless of what they&#8217;re studying, their fields, their interests, what we want to do is take one step from the WordPress skills education and show them how they can enhance, train, and gain new skills using the WordPress ecosystems, regardless their interests.</p>



<p>And the word credits, as you said, yes, it&#8217;s just something because we want to partner with educational institutions, universities, schools, that will recognise the practice program into their students&#8217; curriculum.</p>



<p>A clear example, we&#8217;ve just launched a pilot with the University of Pisa in Italy for the Department of Translation and Communication. And for them, we are offering 150 hours of practice for the students. They will be connected with mentors. They&#8217;re going to have their virtual classrooms, and they&#8217;ll be guided since the beginning until the end. At the end, they&#8217;re going to build their website of WordPress, we teach them how to do it. You are going to use the Learn platform to guide them through the whole process. And they&#8217;re going to be involved in practical work within the community.</p>



<p>They get to pitch what they want to work on. So this is open for designer, translators, developers, whoever wants to practice their own skills and position themself already into the job environment. Because we noticed, I felt like livid on my skin when I was studying translation at the University of Pisa, that I had to do countless hours of practice translating things that nobody ever read, used. It was very good for me. For me it was perfect to have things to practice on, and so I could become a great translator, but I worked on stuff that nobody ever used.</p>



<p>And the moment I joined the WordPress community in 2022 and I found out about the Polyglots team, I start thinking, hey, I could have been translating WordPress for five years and getting real life experience, exposure to a global community of professionals in the field that I&#8217;m interested, and also connection with companies with other fields that I couldn&#8217;t even imagine it existed for me as a translator.</p>



<p>So the goal of this program is exactly to enable students around the world, regardless what they&#8217;re studying, to become, to shape their future through practice. And we, when I say we, I mean all the volunteers and contributors who are participating into this project. We have designed a path for each student where they not only get to practice the skills that are more relevant to the fields of study, but also transferable skills.</p>



<p>Like, for example, organising, working independently in a remote and async environment while keeping stakeholders updated. How to design a project, because they will have to finish the program, presenting a project that they would&#8217;ve designed, developed, and worked on. Public speaking because they would have also exposure to presenting the work to the WordPress community.</p>



<p>And at the end of the mentorship, of course, from experienced contributors in our community, and at the end, at the wrap up, they will receive a certificate from the WordPress Foundation, certifying the hours of contribution within the program. And at that point, the educational institution they&#8217;re studying, they&#8217;re going to recognise these as a part of their curriculum.</p>



<p>For some universities and schools, it translates into credits. For example, for Pisa, 150 hours of contribution translating into six credits. So students can decide to skip a traditional exam and do this practice. And for other institution might look different. But the requirement for an institution to join this program is that they have to recognise this work into the students curriculum.</p>



<p>[00:47:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay so, dear listener, you may have noticed we shifted gears. We went from talking about WP Campus Connect to WordPress Credits, and we&#8217;ve now moved into a very different arena.</p>



<p>And so now, I&#8217;ve never been to the University of Pisa, but I&#8217;m going to guess that, just the name itself, it&#8217;s an utterly credible institution, you know, with a long history of taking in students and requiring them to work hard in order that they get some kind of qualification at the end.</p>



<p>So this is very different. We are now talking about doing WordPressy things, and at the end of it, it&#8217;s equal to a proportion of the stuff that they would be doing at that university already. Now that then, I guess, implies that this is a more structured thing, that there needs to be more inspection of what&#8217;s going on, that there needs to be kind of hoops to jump through that you need to be able to credibly say, we know that this person did this. We can prove it. There&#8217;s a paper trail, and at the end of it you get, with the University of Pisa, six credits, which equals whatever that equals.</p>



<p>So presumably there&#8217;s more backwards and forwards. Rather than the WP Campus Connect, which is more philanthropic and, you know, more community based, presumably you&#8217;ve had to have fairly lengthy conversations and dialogue with the University of Pisa so that they know that you are not giving away six credits for nothing. What&#8217;s that been like?</p>



<p>[00:48:39] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> Yes, you are absolutely right, and this is the case, and it is understandably, because we need to show them what is the potential, and what the students will gain. For me, it&#8217;s been a wonderful experience. And now I&#8217;m also in conversation with other universities and other schools. And having myself lived, like felt this gap between, oh, I&#8217;m doing practice, but it feels like it&#8217;s just useful to me, but it&#8217;s not applied in the real world.</p>



<p>And seeing, hey, this could bring, just basically push all these students into creating something that not only they own, because I believe the ownership is very important because most of cases, studies are a little bit passive. So as you were saying before, we have a teacher, we sit, we listen and we do what we&#8217;re asked to do.</p>



<p>In this case is the other way around. It&#8217;s, hey, this is a playground of learning opportunities for you. We show you everything that you can play with, and then you get to design the project. You get to experiment all this exposure to real life that usually you don&#8217;t get at university or another, let&#8217;s say, formal institutions. And for the universities, this is going to be, basically a certificate for institutional excellence for them, because right now, only the University of Pisa is offering this. In a few weeks, also the universities Fidélitas in Costa Rica will start offering this.</p>



<p>So just, hey, to institutions worldwide, this is something that the university, once they understand what it is, they will want to jump on it. And so as you say, it&#8217;s a lot of back and forth. It&#8217;s always a very interesting conversation because every university has some similar and some different needs for their students. And for me it&#8217;s a huge learning curve because I&#8217;m getting to learn a lot about other institutions. But at the end, everyone who I&#8217;ve been talking to so far, they are like over the moon with the idea of offering this option, this possibility to their students.</p>



<p>What I&#8217;m doing right now is starting connecting with teachers, schools, universities, institution that I personally, I&#8217;m already personally connected with, like the case in Pisa. And the WordPress community is key because also, in this community, there&#8217;s plenty of teachers. Everywhere you look, there is, oh, okay, I teach WordPress, I teach this other WordPress related theme. Oh, I teach at this school, I teach at this universities. Or, hey, in my kids&#8217; school, they were looking for something like this, and it turns out that maybe you&#8217;re not a teacher, but you have kids and they&#8217;re at schools.</p>



<p>So it&#8217;s been key, the connection with the community. And it&#8217;s actually one of the biggest needs that we have right now. Right now, there are three, including myself, contributors focusing on this project. We need more help, also to create this connection, to get into the institution and to have them understand the offer that we&#8217;re giving to them.</p>



<p>[00:51:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So I&#8217;m going to read into the record a recycled version of the comment that I made a moment ago about WP Campus Connect. And that is that if you know anybody who could fit into this part of the jigsaw, you know, an educator or somebody that works in a university, whatever capacity that may be, I guess you are looking for that door to be slightly pushed ajar so that you&#8217;ve got these contacts wherever they may be. Obviously you&#8217;ve got Pisa, Costa Rica and what have you. But it would be nice to spread this a little bit further.</p>



<p>Okay. Okay, so that bit is now done. The bit that I want to ask with this is with the university students going through the WordPress Credit system, is this kind of a distributed thing? Is it something that they can do in their own time? Or do they need to, I don&#8217;t know, attend, be in a particular lecture hall at a particular time in order to prove that they&#8217;ve done a particular thing? Or is it entirely remote with, well, basically it&#8217;s a very open-ended question. How does it work from a student point of view? How do they achieve this?</p>



<p>[00:52:59] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> This is a great question actually. The values behind this program is to keep the open source experience as real as possible. So it is a hundred percent remote. We have built the virtual classroom for each student on the Learn platform, and they will be able to self onboard themself, go through the all the steps, but at the same time, they will be paired with the mentors.</p>



<p>So we strongly recommend, and for this first, let&#8217;s say, round of program, we are making strong suggestion to meet with their mentor once per week, so they can learn more about each other, the mentor can help them guiding their way, but they have to complete the hours. We want to, not just respect the principle of the WordPress ecosystems, but also put students in this real life environment that they will find in their job.</p>



<p>Because most of the roles in different type of companies, you just don&#8217;t have to like stay there and show that they&#8217;re doing the things. You work at your pace. You have your project. You have to share updates, of course, and show that you are progressing. And for WordPress credits, if students want to work on weekends, during night, this is up to them. They just have to complete the WordPress site and the hours assigned.</p>



<p>And there are couple of steps that will have them syncing at a specific moment with other parts of the community. For example, participating to a discussion on Slack, or a discussion on a blog post. Because also they&#8217;re experimenting different tool and different communication styles. And if there is a meetup, local meetup active in their cities, one of the step would also be participate to one of them. Or if there is no meetup, local meetup happening, to join an online meetup.</p>



<p>So in this way the success of this program would reach the most, the highest point, if they have not only completed the work they decided to do, but if they also have experienced all the different parts of the ecosystem. So this way they work out the program, and they have the new world possibility open. They can decide to stay, they can decide to just focus more on one particular thing and they would&#8217;ve learned how to upload and work on WordPress, TV. How to use tools like Slack, GitHub, WordPress, the Learn platform, everything. So this is what they will get.</p>



<p>[00:55:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s pretty amazing. I mean, set aside the fact that when I was at university, the internet just didn&#8217;t exist because I&#8217;m of a certain age, but I would&#8217;ve loved something like this. The capacity to just sort of do things in my own time, you know, fit it around, cherry pick the bits that I want to pick. For me it was much more, you pick a course, you show up to the course, you imbibe the content, you sit and exam and so it goes. And that was what was on offer. But this is so great.</p>



<p>And also, I don&#8217;t know if this is something that you do do but it just came into my head, the capacity for this to be an accreditation prior to gaining access to a university. So at the minute in the UK, all of the results are coming out for the examinations which children, well, young adults require in order to get to their place at university. And then when they&#8217;re at the university, they obviously get these credits and get the degree or what have you. But something like WordPress credits, it&#8217;d be kind of fun if it could count towards that onboarding process, you know, to get you in the door of a university to show up and say, I did the WordPress thing. I did something a little bit above and beyond what everybody else is doing. I mean, I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s any plans for that, but that struck me as a curious option.</p>



<p>[00:56:45] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> That would be the dream. Having WordPress credits embedded into like mandatory curriculum to get to a specific level of education, or to be able to end, to graduate from a specific level of education. This is going to be the dream. Now we&#8217;ve taken the first steps, so now we&#8217;ve built up the program, we are going to gather feedback, improve it, adjust it with all these first new batch of students that are coming. And also from the sponsors, the universities, and the mentors feedback. And then little by little, this is where we want to go. Ready to bring WordPress contributions everywhere.</p>



<p>[00:57:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I mean, gosh, what an episode this has been. I thoroughly enjoyed this. However, I don&#8217;t know if we&#8217;re done yet because on the show notes that I had, we had three points that we were to mention. One was WP Campus Connect, which we did at the beginning, and then we&#8217;ve just spent a few moments talking about WordPress Credits. But there&#8217;s this other curious bit that I don&#8217;t know much about, and I don&#8217;t know if this is something we want to delve into, WordPress Student Clubs. What&#8217;s that?</p>



<p>[00:57:47] <strong>Destiny Kanno:</strong> Yeah, so that is, you don&#8217;t have to have a WordPress Campus Connect event to request a WordPress Student Club on your campus. But it essentially was birthed out of this idea from Anand of like, hey, you know, now that we&#8217;ve got this captive audience of students, like where do they go to continue the WordPress activities after we&#8217;re gone? And so the, yeah, WordPress Student Clubs were born.</p>



<p>You can now request a site created for your Student Club when you request to organise a WordPress Campus Connect event, or you can just reach out to us directly. And right now, I believe Anand is working with the Sophia Girls College right now in Ajmer to set up their WordPress Student Club. I think they&#8217;re the first actually to have one.</p>



<p>And the goal is that they can continue on campus, their WordPress activities. They can connect still with the local community, potentially like invite them to their student club events. It&#8217;s just like a extracurricular circle or club that now is WordPress themed that will, I think, help them continue.</p>



<p>And also, sorry, I just wanted bring in like the Credits portion too. Like you might have folks from different majors, right, that are using WordPress in different ways. So it&#8217;s a way for also the students to intermingle amongst different majors within their campus as well.</p>



<p>[00:59:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of a way to keep the conversation going, isn&#8217;t it, in a sense? It&#8217;s more opportunities to kind of keep people interested and give them opportunities. And all of that is just so necessary. We talked at the beginning about the age demographic of WordPress and how all of this stuff is just such a real credible way of trying to tackle that.</p>



<p>And I think if you were to put somebody that went through, let&#8217;s say, WP Campus Connect. If you were to drop them straight into a meetup, maybe that&#8217;s too much, because it can get fairly technical. You know, the presentations are often about some fairly technical things, and so this feels like a really nice bridge. It keeps it more based around the students, so they&#8217;re familiar with each other. They&#8217;re in the same institution, presumably. It&#8217;s kind of like a club. We call them afterschool clubs in the UK. It feels a little bit more like that. So it&#8217;s much more based around where they already are and that kind of thing.</p>



<p>[00:59:59] <strong>Destiny Kanno:</strong> It gives them a sense of ownership as well, because it&#8217;s as you said, it&#8217;s a students&#8217; club, so, you know, there&#8217;s going to be someone that&#8217;s leading it, and maybe a co-lead as well, and a faculty member who will also be there to advise or assist.</p>



<p>[01:00:13] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of an in campus meetup group, that kind of thing. So they can, just like you said, taking them to the local community meetup will be a little bit overwhelming from them, because whatever the sessions, whatever the topics that are planned in the meetups stuff, catering to the wider audience. So in the campus club they can decide their own kind of topics. What are the topics they are interested in? And they can learn, it&#8217;s kind of a group learning as well. Someone from them is learning one topic and delivering this knowledge to the other club members. So it&#8217;s a way to keep the momentum going on that is started with WordPress Campus Connect program.</p>



<p>[01:00:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s absolutely wonderful. I&#8217;m going to make sure, before we finally finish this call, although we&#8217;ll end the podcast recording in a moment, I&#8217;ll make sure that I ask these panelists to send me any links that may assist you. And so what I&#8217;m going to say is if you head to the wptavern.com website, and if you search for this episode, you could probably search for WP Campus Connect or WordPress Credits or what have you, certainly it&#8217;ll be there available in search.</p>



<p>Head to that, look at the show notes and the links. There&#8217;ll be a transcript of this and there&#8217;ll be some show notes where I just sort of summarise what&#8217;s going on. But right at the bottom, a little way down the page will be all of the links for everything that we have discussed. Maybe some additional ones as well for things that we didn&#8217;t have.</p>



<p>And when I attend WordPress events, there&#8217;s always a sense of this, there&#8217;s always a sense of look around, the community&#8217;s not getting any younger. We&#8217;ve got to do something about it. Complaining is the wrong word. People are not doing that, they&#8217;re just curious about that. Well, here, you&#8217;ve been spoonfed the solution. You now know what it is that you could do to skew the demographic younger. If the WordPress project is something that you believe in, and you would like to carry on, the only way to do that is to have a funnel of younger people who will become the older people, who will then teach the younger people. And so the cycle continues.</p>



<p>If you want that to happen and you don&#8217;t know how to make that happen, well, now you do. You&#8217;ve got these people to reach out to. You&#8217;ve got these projects that you know about. You can get involved in any of this, at any level.</p>



<p>And all that it remains for me to do is to say, wow, thank you to all three of you for being interested in this. Not just interested, being active and making the effort to get these things started, to get them off the ground, which is the hardest bit, I think. And hopefully now that they have got off the ground, they will fly with wings of their own. That would be really nice. So, Destiny, Isotta and Anand, thank you so much for chatting to me today. What an episode that was.</p>



<p>[01:02:55] <strong>Destiny Kanno:</strong> Thank you so much, Nathan.</p>



<p>[01:02:57] <strong>Isotta Peira:</strong> Thank you. It&#8217;s been a huge pleasure.</p>



<p>[01:02:59] <strong>Anand Upadhyay:</strong> And thank you for giving us a platform to share all these initiatives.</p>
</div></details>



<p>On the podcast today we have <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/piyopiyofox/">Destiny Kanno</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/peiraisotta/">Isotta Peira</a> and <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/anandau14/">Anand Upadhyay</a>.</p>



<p>Destiny is the head of Community Education at Automattic. Isotta is the leader of the WordPress credits initiative for students. Anand is the founder of WordPress Campus Connect.</p>



<p>This episode is all about how WordPress is not only powering websites but also empowering the next generation of learners and creators. You’ll hear about the growing movement of education-focused WordPress events happening worldwide, from hands-on workshops on university campuses in India, to student clubs designed to keep the momentum going after introductory events.</p>



<p>Anand shares how WP Campus Connect is bringing WordPress directly to students, reducing barriers to entry and helping bridge the gap between academic learning and real-world tech skills. We also explore the challenges of organising these events, from convincing institutions of the value of open source, to fostering genuine community involvement among both students and educators.</p>



<p>Isotta then introduces us to the WordPress Credits program, an initiative that lets students turn their contributions to the WordPress ecosystem into recognised academic credit at universities like Pisa in Italy. It’s a win-win: students gain practical, resume-worthy experience, while educational institutions get a transferable, skills-focused, program that prepares learners for the jobs of the future.</p>



<p>Whether you’re an educator, a WordPress enthusiast, or just someone who cares about open source and community, this episode is packed with actionable insights. The guests share how flexible and resilient these education initiatives are, how you can get involved, and why engaging the next generation is not just important, but essential for the continued growth and sustainability of the WordPress community.</p>



<p>It’s a truly inspiring episode, and is at the intersection of so many areas of profound importance.</p>



<p>If you’re curious about how to bring WordPress into your local school, university, or community, or if you just want to hear how WordPress is making a difference far beyond the web, this episode is for you.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Useful links</h2>



<p><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/handbook/wordpress-credits-contribution-internship-program/">WordPress Credits Program</a></p>



<p><a href="https://gamma.app/docs/WordPress-Credits-2ul3dmv61tpover?mode=present#card-qc1u5yvi4tt7he1">WordPress Credits: A bridge to open-source technology</a></p>



<p><a href="https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/">WordPress Campus Connect</a></p>



<p><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/">Learn WordPress</a></p>



<p><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/community-deputy/other-event-formats/wordpress-campus-connect/#wordpress-campus-connect-student-clubs">WordPress Student Clubs</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2025/07/introducing-wordpress-credits-a-new-contribution-internship-program-for-university-students/">Introducing WordPress Credits: A New Contribution Internship Program for University Students</a></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Biographies</h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Destiny Kanno</h3>



<p>Destiny Fox Kanno, sponsored contributor at Automattic with a focus on education within the WordPress community. Currently focusing on growing, enabling and amplifying the WordPress Campus Connect and Student Club initiatives.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Isotta Peira</h3>



<p>Isotta joined the WordPress Community in 2022 as a full-time contributor to the Community Team, sponsored by Automattic. With a background in translation, sales, training, and community management, she also ran a culinary events business. She values making informed decisions by integrating data analysis into her work and believes sharing knowledge is key to fighting inequality. Isotta is currently leading the WordPress Credits program, an initiative that connects open-source contributions with academic curricula worldwide.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Anand Upadhyay</h3>



<p>Anand Upadhyay is the founder of WPVibes, a WordPress plugin development company. He has been working with WordPress since 2010 and contributes to several Make WordPress teams, including Core, Docs, Polyglots, and Community. He also serves as an organizer for WordCamp Asia, one of the flagship events in the WordPress ecosystem.<br />In addition to building plugins, Anand is deeply passionate about teaching and education. He co-organizes the Ajmer WordPress Meetup and is currently contributing to the global expansion of WordPress Campus Connect, a program he initiated as a pilot in 2024 to introduce students to WordPress and open source. Through these efforts, he focuses on helping new learners and contributors discover opportunities to learn, grow, and find their place in the WordPress community.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 03 Sep 2025 14:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Nathan Wrigley";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:99:"Open Channels FM: How WordPress Handles Backwards Compatibility: Lessons from Real-World Challenges";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=105983";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:105:"https://openchannels.fm/how-wordpress-handles-backwards-compatibility-lessons-from-real-world-challenges/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:241:"The discussion on backwards compatibility highlights its importance in WordPress, ensuring seamless functionality during updates. Experts emphasize careful support for older versions, enabling a smoother user experience across diverse sites.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 03 Sep 2025 10:22:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:110:"Open Channels FM: Building a Resilient Web with Arweave’s Vision for Decentralized Long-Term Content Storage";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=108589";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:114:"https://openchannels.fm/building-a-resilient-web-with-arweaves-vision-for-decentralized-long-term-content-storage/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:201:"The episode features Dave Lockie having a conversation with Sam Williams about Arweave, a decentralized storage network addressing digital impermanence and promoting permanent information preservation.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 03 Sep 2025 09:45:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"Matt: Are you a WordPresser?";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149276";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:34:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/wordpresser/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2020:"<p>You might be a WordPresser if&#8230;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>You like to have freedom and control over all your software.</li>



<li>You don’t mind taking a bit more time to invest in tools that give you agency.</li>



<li>You like inserting little opportunities for joy in everyday interfaces.</li>



<li>You want future generations to grow up with a free and open web.</li>



<li>You like to tinker, hack, mod, customize, and share what you learn.</li>



<li>You are impeccable with your word.</li>



<li>You think software should have a little soul in it.</li>



<li>You love giving other people superpowers, teaching them not to need you anymore.</li>



<li>You appreciate a good plan but want to be able to color outside the lines, or completely reimagine the canvas altogether.</li>



<li>You think technology is best when it brings people together.</li>



<li>You get excited by updates.</li>



<li>You want your corner of the web to truly be yours, not generic or commoditized slop.</li>



<li>Your friends come to you to learn about new stuff.</li>



<li>You leave things better than you find them.</li>



<li>You fix things as you find them, it’s never someone else’s problem.</li>



<li>You know a single comment can light up someone’s day.</li>



<li>You’ve gotten out of the house to meet other people into WordPress.</li>



<li>There’s a Wapuu item or sticker somewhere in your life.</li>



<li>You “view source.”</li>



<li>You know the difference between owning your content and being a digital sharecropper.</li>



<li>You’ve drunkenly registered a domain, and have more domains than websites.</li>



<li>You’ve snuck an easter egg in a slug.</li>



<li>You have a Gravatar, and it’s also a museum of all your email identities over the years.</li>



<li>You think code can be poetry.</li>
</ul>



<p>If you identified with two or more of these statements, I am afraid to inform you might be classified as a WordPresser. What did I miss?</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 02 Sep 2025 21:50:26 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:53:"Gutenberg Times: Why WordPress Core needs more blocks";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=41679";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:64:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/why-wordpress-core-needs-more-blocks/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11441:"<p>Over the years, I have been an ardent supporter of keeping WordPress lean and letting plugins and themes do all the fun, custom stuff. But the block paradigm shifted everything. And moreso, it shifted everything about building WordPress themes.</p>



<p>Today, my perspective has changed, and I’ve nestled into the camp of those calling for more blocks in WordPress.</p>



<p>Let me explain why.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">A journey</h2>



<p>Let’s jump back in time for a moment. Three and a half years ago, just before the release of WordPress 5.9, themers were in complete control of the front-end output of WordPress sites. </p>



<p>Well, that’s a bit of a stretch. They were actually in control of everything but the content. Of that, they mostly had styling control. It was much like the previous 18 years where you would have the freedom and flexibility to build whatever you wanted. </p>



<p>But in the few years leading up to that point, the landscape had begun changing. Themes had to be compatible with new types of output beyond the basic paragraphs, headings, lists, and media. The Block Editor had been on the scene for a while before WordPress 5.9, but theme authors still exercised almost all the control they had in the past.</p>



<p>Once you started building block themes, suddenly what was possible shrank very, very quickly.</p>



<p><em>Want to include breadcrumbs?</em> You need to add support for a <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/x3p0-breadcrumbs/">breadcrumbs block</a>, but which one?</p>



<p><em>Need an accordion?</em> Maybe you could manipulate the Details block, but that may not be <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/60335">an accessible approach</a>.</p>



<p><em>How about including SVG icons?</em> You guessed it; you need an <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/icon-block/">icon block</a> for that.</p>



<p>And have you ever experienced what the UI looks like when a user doesn’t have a supported block installed?</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="WordPress post editor that shows a Table of Contents block that is not installed. It includes a message that the site doesn't support the block." class="wp-image-41680" height="340" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/toc-no-block.webp?resize=652%2C340&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<p><em>Eeeek!</em></p>



<div class="wp-block-genesis-blocks-gb-notice gb-font-size-18 gb-block-notice" style="color: #32373c; background-color: #3373dc;"><div class="gb-notice-text" style="border-color: #3373dc;">
<p>I’d also like to take this moment to point out that you are not allowed to bundle custom blocks in themes submitted to the official WordPress theme directory. There are <em>very</em> good reasons for this that I won’t dive into. I’m including this side note merely for context.</p>
</div></div>



<p>Gone were the days where you could just include anything and everything. It’s like painting on a canvas with a limited color palette and set of brushes when you previously had every tool at your disposal.</p>



<p>Now, truly great artists can make magic happen regardless of the tools. Things like the <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/tag/block-bindings/">Block Bindings API</a> can fill in some of the gaps. But some features are just darn hard without a dedicated block.</p>



<p>Before block themes, theme authors enjoyed loads of new features over the years, but how and what you could build mostly remained static, the only limitation being the technology of the day. Block themes created the potential for more people to take that first step into the world of theming without knowing any code whatsoever. And they introduced the standards that so many of the inner community had called on for so long, created better interoperability with plugins, and brought contemporary technologies to WordPress.</p>



<p>But the cost was a limited toolset that required new ways of thinking from us old timers who’d been merrily doing our own thing for so long.</p>



<p>It’s an exciting world, but it could be more exciting in the next stage of this journey.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">The case for more Core blocks</h2>



<p>I am a developer. I love tinkering with anything and everything. I even dabble in creating custom plugins, but my true passion is creating WordPress themes. I’ve probably written just as much on the subject as anyone over the years. It’s safe to say that I know the technical limitations of block theming as much as anyone can reasonably be expected to (though I’m still learning new things all the time).</p>



<p>So when Matías Ventura, the Project Architect of Gutenberg, opened a <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/71026">ticket calling for more niche blocks</a> in WordPress, it piqued my interest. The list of potential blocks were:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/16484">Icons</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/805">Playlist</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/43369">Slider/Carousel</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/71017">Stretchy Text</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/34079">Tabs</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/21584">Accordion</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/23745">Mega Menus</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/47198">MathML</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/41730">Marquee</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/42229">Table of Contents</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/53776">Time to Read</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/21943">Breadcrumbs</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/61297">Dialog</a></li>
</ul>



<p>Admittedly, I chuckled at the thought of a Stretchy Text block actually being included in Core. But the more I dug into what it takes to actually implement the design, I could see the case for it. I certainly don’t see a good way of using it in a theme design pattern without a dedicated block.</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="WordPress post editor that displays a green gradient background in the content canvas. Across the top is demo text that stretches from the far left to far right of the screen, creating a stretchy text effect." class="wp-image-41682" height="340" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/stretchy-text.webp?resize=652%2C340&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /><figcaption class="wp-element-caption">The <a href="https://specialprojects.automattic.com/tools/stretchy-type/">Stretchy Type block</a> from the Automattic Special Projects team.</figcaption></figure>



<p>And marquees? Were they not relegated to a long dead era when Geocities ruled the blogosphere? I miss the old days of the wild and wacky web. <em>Could be fun.</em> <img alt="🤔" class="wp-smiley" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f914.png" style="height: 1em;" /></p>



<p>It’s easy to get tangled up in the weeds, using the most niche blocks as arguments against components like accordions, tabs, dialogs, and table of contents, which are standard pieces of the web as we know it today.</p>



<p>If you recall, I said earlier that I was a longtime supporter of keeping Core lean. The old WordPress was very much a development framework. But as a theme author in the block theme era, I’ve moved much closer to the thoughts that Ventura espoused:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>I think not having these blocks in the core library severely limits the expressiveness that theme builders (and users) can depend upon to build great designs and it can fracture the overall experience.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>There have been many moments in the last three years where I’d have 95% of the work done, speeding toward the finish line of a block theme project. Then I’d smash into a brick wall. Quite often that wall was a missing design component. </p>



<p>I’ve been in the development game long enough to find workarounds, but it’s been at the expense of untold hours of development time that could’ve been better spent elsewhere.</p>



<p>And if I’m at the top of my game, what hope is there for newcomers who have bright ideas and big dreams? Will they be able to build that unique design they have in mind? Or will they switch to another platform?</p>



<p><em>So…I want more blocks. </em></p>



<p>I want more possibilities. </p>



<p>I want to make ideas come to life without spending a week figuring out how to pigeonhole some feature into a place it doesn’t belong just to make things work.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">To include or not include</h2>



<p>I hope that you at least agree on one point: For block theming to progress, WordPress needs a mechanism for theme authors to fully express their ideas. </p>



<p>Everything beyond that is implementation details. Ventura’s <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/71026">proposal for additional blocks</a> has garnered a lot of discussion over the past month both in the ticket and elsewhere around the community. There’s wide agreement and disagreement on some or all points.</p>



<p>Chiefly, whether the more niche blocks should be bundled is of concern. Things like future compatibility, potential legacy baggage, and bundle size are worth discussing. There’s also the potential for <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/58773">Core/Canonical blocks</a> that Ventura proposed in 2024, a set of blocks built and maintained by WordPress contributors but not shipped with the platform itself. I’d even be happy with a method of auto-installing supported blocks when a user activates a theme.</p>



<p>Frankly, I don’t much care how we get there—just that we do. And I hope that god-forsaken “your site doesn’t include support for the [name] block” message never graces the screen of one of my theme’s users.</p>



<p>Let me bundle patterns with icons that users can swap out as needed:</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="WordPress post editor that displays a three-column grid design with an SVG image placeholder, heading, and text." class="wp-image-41683" height="340" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/icon-block.webp?resize=652%2C340&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<p>Let me create accessible accordions without manipulating the Details block:</p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img alt="WordPress post editor that shows multiple Details block in an accordion-like design." class="wp-image-41684" height="340" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/details-accordion.webp?resize=652%2C340&#038;ssl=1" width="652" /></figure>



<p>Just let me create something beautiful.</p>



<p class="has-text-align-right"><em>Props to Birgit Pauli-Haack, Anne McCarthy, and Héctor Prieto for feedback on this article before publishing.</em></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 02 Sep 2025 14:34:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Justin Tadlock";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:88:"Open Channels FM: Why Companies Should Sponsor WordPress Contributors (And How To Start)";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=105257";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:93:"https://openchannels.fm/why-companies-should-sponsor-wordpress-contributors-and-how-to-start/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:189:"WordPress is powered by a passionate community. Companies should sponsor contributors for goodwill, ecosystem health, and industry connections. Starting small is key to making a difference.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 02 Sep 2025 09:53:24 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:102:"Open Channels FM: Learn How WordPress Playground Revolutionizes Local Development Testing and Learning";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"https://openchannels.fm/?p=108586";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:109:"https://openchannels.fm/learn-how-wordpress-playground-revolutionizes-local-development-testing-and-learning/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:163:"In this episode of The WordPress Way, Abha Thakor and Fellyph Cintra discuss WordPress Playground, its features, accessibility, and impact on developers and users.";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 02 Sep 2025 09:08:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:49;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:21:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:19:"Matt: Fact Checkers";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=149253";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:36:"https://ma.tt/2025/09/fact-checkers/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:765:"<p>The New Yorker is always good, but they&#8217;re having a bit of a victory lap as they celebrate their centennial. <a href="https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/09/01/the-history-of-the-new-yorkers-vaunted-fact-checking-department">This article on the vaunted fact-checkers is such a delight</a>, with so many in-jokes and back references it&#8217;s hard to keep track. </p>



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